Near SEVEN figure mtg art sales 0

[Bronty]

Since prices are getting real I figured it was time to start a new thread.

Black Lotus is being offered on the facebook art group for 6.5m.   Seller supposedly turned down 2.5m. 

Perhaps more impressively the mox jet is listed as sold at 750k (its an all stat piece... or a collage I guess you could say).

Junky alphas like farmstead sold @85k.     Counterspell reportedly sold at 220k.  

 

[Andahaion]

Loved Counterspell...such a good card and the reason why I always played Blue (other being White most of the time).

[vodou]

29 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Perhaps more impressively the mox jet is listed as sold at 750k (its an all stat piece... or a collage I guess you could say).

I think collage is the way to go. All stat (aka production art for the purposes of this forum) for more than $50...too sickening to contemplate

[Bronty]

Yeah I think collage is the right term.   But wow. 

Its stunning to be talking about black lotus at Hulk 181 type cover prices (I don't believe he has a hope of getting 6.5 but supposedly turned down 2.5 which isn't beyond the realm of possibility if mox collages are getting 750).

Then again, for that hobby, its the equivalent of the cover of AF15 or Action 1.

[vodou]

3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Then again, for that hobby, its the equivalent of the cover of AF15 or Action 1.

We've talked about this before, so to be clear: I'm writing this not in the spirit of bashing or ignoring that all hobbies have their own touchstones and if I'm not a fan, then...but instead...stepping back, there is an aesthetic attractiveness separate from "use" or insular hobby-specific dynamics (very rare and powerful card, 1st appearance of..., etc) that I can easily lean on making those two comic pieces more wall-able (if you will) than almost anything MTG for visual content (not even getting into dimensional issues and the like).

That's a massive hurdle for me on this subject, looking unlikely that I can mentally surmount it too, that some art stripped of context (and yes, I can do that) is more attractive (aesthetically pleasing to they eye, etc) than some other art. All this, nothing to do with the big numbers attached either. None of it (comics, comic art, ccg art, any ?? art) is "worth" more than $150 or so, stripped of context and what fanboys (of the type) would line up down the street to pay (30% fmv, etc).

[wurstisart]

Can this be discussed so everyone understands what you are posting here?!?

I have no clue.... This is not to be taken as criticism or turn into a negative comment. 

I just have sincerely no idea.

[Bronty]

4 minutes ago, vodou said:

We've talked about this before, so to be clear: I'm writing this not in the spirit of bashing or ignoring that all hobbies have their own touchstones and if I'm not a fan, then...but instead...stepping back, there is an aesthetic attractiveness separate from "use" or insular hobby-specific dynamics (very rare and powerful card, 1st appearance of..., etc) that I can easily lean on making those two comic pieces more wall-able (if you will) than almost anything MTG for visual content (not even getting into dimensional issues and the like).

That's a massive hurdle for me on this subject, looking unlikely that I can mentally surmount it too, that some art stripped of context (and yes, I can do that) is more attractive (aesthetically pleasing to they eye, etc) than some other art. All this, nothing to do with the big numbers attached either. None of it (comics, comic art, ccg art, any ?? art) is "worth" more than $150 or so, stripped of context and what fanboys (of the type) would line up down the street to pay (30% fmv, etc).

Yeah and I still dunno what your point is.   Context is most of the value of everything.    Even your Clive Barker stuff has added value because he's famous, wrote books etc.    Stripped of that, worth less.

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, wurstisart said:

Can this be discussed so everyone understands what you are posting here?!?

I have no clue.... This is not to be taken as criticism or turn into a negative comment. 

I just have sincerely no idea.

The OA for the most valuable magic card is for sale at $6,500,000.    Seller supposedly turned down $2,500,000.

A collage piece for one of the next most valuable cards appears to have sold for $750,000.

Many other high end pieces have been crushing records.

[wurstisart]

Wow. Ok, now I can follow. At least what this discussion is about.

How come those magic card original art pieces fetch amounts like this.

Even 750 k is major !

Thanks for explaining.

[Bronty]

3 minutes ago, wurstisart said:

Wow. Ok, now I can follow. At least what this discussion is about.

How come those magic card original art pieces fetch amounts like this.

Even 750 k is major !

Thanks for explaining.

Popularity of the game (going strong 25 years later).

Value of the cards (up to 100k for mint early cards) themselves.

Rarity of the early art.   (Think 150 accounted for 'alpha' paintings, only.   Now imagine there were only 150 pieces of published spider-man art in the world). 

[vodou]

11 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Yeah and I still dunno what your point is.   Context is most of the value of everything.    Even your Clive Barker stuff has added value because he's famous, wrote books etc.    Stripped of that, worth less.

My point is, stripped of context and purely on the visual, card art is ugly (overall) while comic art is not (overall).

That's an aesthetic judgement.

Nothing to do with money (also contextual btw).

Perhaps you're not able to divorce yourself from the relative contexts?

[Bronty]

11 minutes ago, vodou said:

My point is, stripped of context and purely on the visual, card art is ugly (overall) while comic art is not (overall).

 

Its just such an inaccurate and utterly biased statement Michael.   Yes, you threw the "overall" in there, but there's card art with nice images.   Card art with ugly images.    Comic art with nice images.   Comic art that's ugly as heck or just plain boring with 9 panels of talking heads.   

Its all in the eye of the beholder, and while I don't begrudge your opinion I'm not sure why you need to continue making the point that in your opinion its all ugly.    Okay, so.... ?    It just feels like you're trying to talk down anything that isn't in your wheelhouse.    Yes, the BL art is ugly, and yes, Herb Trimpe is no Michelangelo.    That said, I still love ya!   

Edited January 29, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

18 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Even your Clive Barker stuff has added value because he's famous, wrote books etc.    Stripped of that, worth less.

You seem to go there every time, but it's a straw man.

Clive Barker's art is a completely artificial market that's not supported otherwise. The vast majority of Clive's large oils (his signature work, what I'm getting at though he does smaller non-oils too) are still with him, available but at asks that are seemingly pulled out of thin air. Or rather were set by himself and gallerists when he was showing more frequently (90s and Oughts). Why do I write all that? Because there is no aftermarket for them, meaning collector to collector re-sales. At least not in a way I've ever seen, aside from the few that occasionally pop up at numbers that are essentially cost basis(ish) and pretty much never sell on eBay and the odd fine art web site. Further the very fact that Clive still has, approximately, 90% of every large oil he's ever done means the market isn't seeing these as anything remotely like a good deal and certainly not a super steal. Further, reading fans are very much not visual fans. I can write with considerable experience that it's almost impossible to get an author's fanbase interested in the art for their favorite book. Just the way it is, and it's widespread enough, I've tried and failed enough, to be "a thing". If you want to sell the art for a loved book, you will need to approach the artist's fanbase..not the author's. And Clive is most widely known for writing and directing, not art (illustration or fine).

So your statement, what does that have to do with anything then, except maybe to point to the attraction that some buyers have to visual in spite of the fact that there is no, zero, contextual underlying fanbase or support to lean on, to go to when it's time to sell? If so, then you've actually made my point stronger here, in an odd and obviously unintentional way...of course

[vodou]

4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

It just feels like you're trying to talk down anything that isn't in your wheelhouse.

Bro...all art is in my wheelhouse, but I know good from bad and am confident enough in myself to put it out there. I'll bring it up, time and again as I feel fit, because I will always push that this is all art (comics, illustration, etc etc etc) and not "comic" art or "ccg" art or "Saturday Evening Post" art. It's all art. And I'll judge on that basis and encourage others to try it too...it's a big world out there, it would be a shame if people only ever loved what they loved when they were...12 years old. No? I'm encouraging deeper self-examination and expression on the subject of: art.

[vodou]

8 minutes ago, Bronty said:

 

Its all in the eye of the beholder, ...    That said, I still love ya!   

Completely disagree.

Making the appeal to a world of no absolutes opens the door to all things are relative and maybe, just maybe, there is a justification ("eye of the beholder", but who's eye?) that nothing is sacred or forbidden. Nothing. Like adult sex with a minor, initiating violence without provocation, and so many similar things that we "as a society" (if not universally individually) all agree is wrong. Now that right there is something of a dangerous and slippery slope too, the appeal to popularity or majority rules (might makes right?) So, to not bog things down further I'll let it lie but want it out there that I acknowledge that and could do better (less fallacious) with more space and time. Anyway, I'd rather live in a world where aesthetics separate from context can exist and be talked about, along with moral absolutes than the opposite.

And yup, still luv ya as well

[Bronty]

7 minutes ago, vodou said:

Bro...all art is in my wheelhouse, but I know good from bad and am confident enough in myself to put it out there. I'll bring it up, time and again as I feel fit, because I will always push that this is all art (comics, illustration, etc etc etc) and not "comic" art or "ccg" art or "Saturday Evening Post" art. It's all art. And I'll judge on that basis and encourage others to try it too...it's a big world out there, it would be a shame if people only ever loved what they loved when they were...12 years old. No? I'm encouraging deeper self-examination and expression on the subject of: art.

OK you got it all out.    Now we can continue without the sidebar

Love ya!

[vodou]

2 minutes ago, Bronty said:

OK you got it all out.    Now we can continue without the sidebar

Love ya!

Well...I mean...if this was your web site...then you could ban me...but it's not. And I'm all sidebar all day long (it is what it is), so...thanks for visiting but do be on your way now? No. Sorry

Don't worry, I'm not just picking on ccg art, I'm all about "art" not "the art of...", the last fifteen years of Gulacy is awful too, as I've recently posted in another thread. Feeling emboldened...I'll continue...here, there, everywhere.

[Bronty]

somebody screen capped the originals here (FB post is already down)   .    The mox jet (right) has wrinkled for where he didn't glue down the collage well.   

The black lotus (left) is vodou's most desired piece of art

 

 

[Bronty]

1 minute ago, vodou said:

Well...I mean...if this was your web site...then you could ban me...but it's not. And I'm all sidebar all day long (it is what it is), so...thanks for visiting but do be on your way now? No. Sorry

Don't worry, I'm not just picking on ccg art, I'm all about "art" not "the art of...", the last fifteen years of Gulacy is awful too, as I've recently posted in another thread. Feeling emboldened...I'll continue...here, there, everywhere.

Oh good.  Nyuk nyuk

[vodou]

3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

somebody screen capped the originals here (FB post is already down)   .    The mox jet (right) has wrinkled for where he didn't glue down the collage well.   

The black lotus (left) is vodou's most desired piece of art

 

 

It's not bad (Rush). The other two (Frazier) are. Unless you are living the throwback Victorian Life or something.

Dan...post that piece that I really do like, 5k then 15k, I don't have the image or link handy myself. Maybe posting it will encourage someone to take the leap...