Near SEVEN figure mtg art sales 0

[Bronty]

5 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

But if you can buy a Frazetta Conan cover for the same price, give me the Frazetta. 

why would the buyer or seller care what you'd do with their money?   99% of people would take real estate over either.    That's not what we're discussing.   Mtg has its own sets of values and the cross interest between frazetta guys and mtg I imagine is very low.

You might as well ask why a fish would ride a bicycle when he could drive a car instead.

[vodou]

43 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

...immature market. 

The complete opposite of a bubble. Almost nobody is in it. Bubbles are never about price but abou momentum and they pop when the momentum stops or even just slows. The bubble, by definition, is when everybody that's ever going to get in is in and probably many with leverage too and then, suddenly, there just are...no more buyers. But then you probably thought BTC, if you were aware of it, was a bubble in 2013 when it took off and hit $100 from just $14 two months earlier. Same situation.

[vodou]

43 minutes ago, Bronty said:

You might as well ask why a fish would ride a bicycle when he could drive a car instead.

answer: eco concerns

[Bronty]

 not bad

[buyatari]

50 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

But if you can buy a Frazetta Conan cover for the same price, give me the Frazetta. 

For sure I'd do the same thing and in part that is what makes this situation so interesting to me. 

[Bronty]

See and I love frazetta but I think I'd take the lotus over a nice frazetta.   Frazettas are great but there are at least 50 nice ones.   The lotus is the best in show, unquestionable top dog, for an entire hobby.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Bronty

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

See and I love frazetta but I think I'd take the lotus over a nice frazetta.   Frazettas are great but there are at least 50 nice ones.   The lotus is the best in show, unquestionable top dog, for an entire hobby.

Yes, but a Frazetta is great because people love the art. Tastes could change, but that’s why people buy Frazetta. Nobody is buying the black lotus because they love the art and want to gaze at it every day. 

[mister_not_so_nice]

18 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yes, but a Frazetta is great because people love the art. Tastes could change, but that’s why people buy Frazetta. Nobody is buying the black lotus because they love the art and want to gaze at it every day. 

But, here's the thing: I look at your art collection and think, "Meh." (not even with an exclamation point). And you look at my collection and think, "This guy has a lot of nerve!" (WITH the exclamation point).   Your money, your choices, my money, my choices (bad as they may be). 

Let those MTG collectors buy what they like.  For 6.5 million I'm buying neither MTG nor Frazetta.  But I also don't have a 6.5million dollar expendable income budget, so I'm done here. Those imaginary talks bore me. 

[mister_not_so_nice]

And, let me add, do we REALLY need TWO threads for basically the same topic (that isn't comic OA)?   And talk about elitism, where's the "Near FIVE figure . . " & "Near FOUR figure . . . " threads?

No one here is buying anything, but two threads circlejerking on these numbers  

[Bronty]

27 minutes ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

But, here's the thing: I look at your art collection and think, "Meh." (not even with an exclamation point). And you look at my collection and think, "This guy has a lot of nerve!" (WITH the exclamation point).   Your money, your choices, my money, my choices (bad as they may be). 

Let those MTG collectors buy what they like.  For 6.5 million I'm buying neither MTG nor Frazetta.  But I also don't have a 6.5million dollar expendable income budget, so I'm done here. Those imaginary talks bore me. 

I understand where you’re coming from. But the top end is also interesting to discuss because it shows trends.   Such as key mtg starting to rival key comic art values.    That’s a rich topic because it speaks to demand , supply, and demographics (this art is only 25 years old or so).

[Bronty]

43 minutes ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

And, let me add, do we REALLY need TWO threads for basically the same topic (that isn't comic OA)?   And talk about elitism, where's the "Near FIVE figure . . " & "Near FOUR figure . . . " threads?

No one here is buying anything, but two threads circlejerking on these numbers  

And, fwiw, it’s not a complete circle jerk in that I was offered a piece that would have to be six figures plus in trade, but I decided against it as I just wasn’t comfortable making a big trade into a market I don’t know as well as I would like to at that dollar figure.    And because I used to own some mtg pieces (one of which is six figures now too at these levels ).   Ultimately I didn’t collect long term because they were too small for me.   So I find it interesting and I think a lot of people do because they can see being into it but can’t quite get there whether due to price or size or whatever 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Bronty

[vodou]

Are any of the big spenders (or sellers for that matter) feeling threatened by the recreation market? Jesper has made an industry out of recreating a number of his popular images cards.

[Bronty]

I think they take it into account and there’s a premium when a guy doesn’t do recreations.   But it’s not a huge thing

[BCarter27]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

Ultimately I didn’t collect long term because they were too small for me.   So I find it interesting and I think a lot of people do because they can see being into it but can’t quite get there whether due to price or size or whatever

Same. My exposure to any MTG card art was through fantasy illustration circles and the works were always too small and under-rendered to capture my interest. And this was the nicer, later stuff by name fantasy artists. Just piles of prelim-level works thrown into boxes at the foot of their tables at Illuxcons.

I've only played the game twice. It wasn't my whole world as I'm sure it was for some people.

In my entire life, I've never seen anything in any collectible market ramp up as insanely fast as the pieces in these threads. I don't think you can even discuss this in the context of other original art fields... comic, fantasy, illustration, fine art. The craftsmanship just isn't there (on these early pieces).

I think the only truly comparable collecting hobby would be sports memorabilia.

https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-most-expensive-pieces-of-sports-memorabilia-ever-sold/

It's got the same wide reach and user participation (as in many people grow up playing baseball, football, basketball.) These are homerun balls for nerds.

I love nerds.  But the people collecting this art at these price points need to have their heads examined.

I'd love to ask them a few questions... Are they married? Do they have kids? Do they have a financial adviser? When and to whom are they thinking of selling? 5 years? 10 years? Do they think MTG will grow as a franchise by then? Will there be five super-rich guys trading these back and forth (and fixing their own prices) or do they think new collectors will be there at 7 figures to pick up the gauntlet?

I know... I know... What I collect is awesome and what you collect ____. But I think the speed and height of the ramp here deserves some major side-eye.

[Bronty]

Oh for sure.   I guess the counterpoint would be that as the cards themselves can get to 50 and 100k now, the absolute most desirable of the OA (as we are discussing here) absolutely should be six figures plus in comparison.   There are 1100 copies of each alpha rare and another 3300 or something beta rares and probably 10000 -20000 copies of each unlimited rare.    And only one piece of OA in comparison.   

 

But I hear ya.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Bronty

[BCarter27]

6 hours ago, Bronty said:

 And only one piece of OA in comparison.  

I'm the guy that said I'd take the Action Comics 1 color mockup over a copy of the actual book. So you'll get no argument about OA over the published counterpart from me. Nor about there needing to be a value difference between the two.

But whoa nellie... what a value difference!

There's no peer justification propping these prices up. It's all just made up numbers. That's the problem with private sales. We've seen it happen on these boards over and over when someone loses money sending a piece to auction after buying it at an inflated price privately.

Other than homerun balls, maybe another comparable would be Star Wars figure backing card production materials. But those prices aren't near these levels.

[PhilipB2k17]

15 hours ago, mister_not_so_nice said:

But, here's the thing: I look at your art collection and think, "Meh." (not even with an exclamation point). And you look at my collection and think, "This guy has a lot of nerve!" (WITH the exclamation point).   Your money, your choices, my money, my choices (bad as they may be). 

Let those MTG collectors buy what they like.  For 6.5 million I'm buying neither MTG nor Frazetta.  But I also don't have a 6.5million dollar expendable income budget, so I'm done here. Those imaginary talks bore me. 

That’s just it. They are not paying a premium for the Black Lotus painting because of the quality of the art. It’s not a question of differing tastes. Sure, someone may not like Frazetta art. But, there’s no question that lots of people love it and buy it because they love it. I seriously doubt anyone would give two craps about the Lotus painting were it not for its association with the MTG card. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

Until I see verified sales, I’m not buying any of this, literally or figuratively. 

And if someone here says they’ve seen these ga ga private sales, then post the “receipts” as it were. 

In any case, the vast majority of people I see playing this game are not in the income bracket where they would be paying for this stuff. Maybe there are a couple of tech millionaires who are shelling out big bucks, but I think it’s pure nonsense. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by PhilipB2k17

[Bronty]

Well, all I'm going to say to that is it turns out I know who bought the time walk piece for a mil.    From the impression I have from dealing with him some, he's good for it.   And he doesn't give a shiznit about frazetta either.   Actually he's more likely to have interest in "fine art" over frazetta and the like.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Bronty

[Pete Marino]

4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Well, all I'm going to say to that is it turns out I know who bought the time walk piece for a mil.    From the impression I have from dealing with him some, he's good for it.   And he doesn't give a shiznit about frazetta either.   Actually he's more likely to have interest in "fine art" over frazetta and the like.

Dan, i think i'm just going to stick with believing the guy who has no knowledge of the market, but is positive of the "Facts" he made up in his head.  <sic>