Trimming
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Edit: Thanks for all the advice and opinions. Think I’ve got what I needed.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Canadiancomics

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Did you get the lee signature witnessed or is it qualified?

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2 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

Did you get the lee signature witnessed or is it qualified?

It's witnessed. I'll update my original post with a full pic. 

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If it's witnessed, then (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you would lose the signature series designation by having it restored, and you are now looking at a qualified restored label. I would leave it as is.

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3 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

If it's witnessed, then (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you would lose the signature series designation by having it restored, and you are now looking at a qualified restored label. I would leave it as is.

Thanks for the info. If I were to get it restored by someone who works at CGC, the Stan signature could remain authentic. I decided to remove that point at that end of my post. Mostly just curious about the trimming on my book.

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I think I mixed up your post with another one about AF15, or maybe was confused by faster's reply because I just noticed my reply makes little sense, since you're asking about it being trimmed and not whether you should have it restored. Sorry for any confusion.

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1 minute ago, SBRobin said:

I think I mixed up your post with another one about AF15, or maybe was confused by faster's reply because I just noticed my reply makes little sense, since you're asking about it being trimmed and not whether you should have it restored. Sorry for any confusion.

It's just because I removed that question from my original post. Now I'm just wondering about the trimming. No worries!

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I see the point you're making. It would seem foolish to think someone tried to trim just one little area when there is so much chipping and wear along edges of the entire cover. I guess it will remain a mystery unless the culprit comes forward.

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12 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

I see the point you're making. It would seem foolish to think someone tried to trim just one little area when there is so much chipping and wear along edges of the entire cover. I guess it will remain a mystery unless the culprit comes forward.

Exactly, it boggles my mind! I think I’m going to upload a comparison picture of my book and other copies that are unrestored.

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Believe it or not, there were kids back in 1962 that had access to tape and scissors. Not only that, they didn't particularly care what they taped or cut. What may have happened here is that some kid put tape on the cover and then trimmed it, accidentally cutting off a thin sliver of the cover when he did. Over the years the tape flakes off, leaving a nasty brown residue. Of course, I've never done anything like that myself...:bigsmile:  

Edited by The Lions Den

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37 minutes ago, Canadiancomics said:

It's just because I removed that question from my original post. Now I'm just wondering about the trimming. No worries!

I was confused by this conversation also. I didn't see your question but I saw the replies. You wanted to remedy a restored, trimmed book by restoring it again ? 

Edited by Bomber-Bob

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9 minutes ago, Canadiancomics said:

Exactly, it boggles my mind! I think I’m going to upload a comparison picture of my book and other copies that are unrestored.

Unless it is really obvious, you can't judge a trim by comparison to other copies. Join the club whose AF15 have come back restored. Happened to me many years ago. It puts you in a state of shock, you are obviously in denial. However, it is what it is. At least you got the signature, that will help with the value and presentation. 

Edited by Bomber-Bob

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Thanks for the feedback everyone, appreciate it. I’m still very curious to know how CGC came to the conclusion that the right edge of the cover was trimmed. Here’s a comparison with 3 unrestored af 15s (mine is the first). I wonder if I got the book pressed to fix the spine roll and resubmit it to CGC, if they’ll still come to the conclusion that the edge is trimmed.

23A1C2E9-745D-4080-85DF-A09CCCED10D8.thumb.jpeg.5eaca7d64f1b02f01ffed9b7a5f4c752.jpeg

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39 minutes ago, Canadiancomics said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone, appreciate it. I’m still very curious to know how CGC came to the conclusion that the right edge of the cover was trimmed. Here’s a comparison with 3 unrestored af 15s (mine is the first). I wonder if I got the book pressed to fix the spine roll and resubmit it to CGC, if they’ll still come to the conclusion that the edge is trimmed.

 

I don't see a spine roll on your book, at least in the traditional sense. I hope we are not at a point in this hobby where we think a press fixes everything. First off, because of the signature, you will have to submit it to CGC in the slab, as is. They will know it was designated trimmed.  The guy doing the pressing at CCS, Chris Friesen, is an expert in the field of restoration. You also have Matt Nelson probably finalizing a Walkthrough book like this. It would not simply slip by them. Do you really think they will change their mind after a press? If you feel this strongly that they made a mistake, I would submit it for an evaluation. Otherwise, I would sell this book and move on, it's obviously bothering you. 

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58 minutes ago, Canadiancomics said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone, appreciate it. I’m still very curious to know how CGC came to the conclusion that the right edge of the cover was trimmed. Here’s a comparison with 3 unrestored af 15s (mine is the first). I wonder if I got the book pressed to fix the spine roll and resubmit it to CGC, if they’ll still come to the conclusion that the edge is trimmed.

23A1C2E9-745D-4080-85DF-A09CCCED10D8.thumb.jpeg.5eaca7d64f1b02f01ffed9b7a5f4c752.jpeg

This will tell you nothing. No two books are precisely the same size left to right and that includes measuring across different planes! Books are not generally manufactured perfectly rectangular, with all 90 degree corners. Size and centering alone, specifically those that appear size deficient and warranting a closer look, are not indicators alone of trim. The edges must be closely scrutinized by an expert well versed in detecting trim to determine trim. Remember. Every book published is technically "trimmed". The job of the resto-detection specialist is to determine if an edge is original, having been trimmed ata certain point in time by the production machinery, or if it's been re-trimmed after publishing.

 

If CGC deemed that the right edge is trimmed, this conclusion was reached by careful examination of the edges. Not by the size or centering alone..

Edited by James J Johnson

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3 hours ago, SBRobin said:

If it's witnessed, then (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you would lose the signature series designation by having it restored....

You are mistaken. 

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At least you'd be covered if you sent it in to the CCS...and certain people perform resto and are witnesses...

if you let old man Jones down the road do the resto and he doesn't follow proper procedure, then you are correct - it would lose the yellow status. 

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11 hours ago, Canadiancomics said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone, appreciate it. I’m still very curious to know how CGC came to the conclusion that the right edge of the cover was trimmed. Here’s a comparison with 3 unrestored af 15s (mine is the first). I wonder if I got the book pressed to fix the spine roll and resubmit it to CGC, if they’ll still come to the conclusion that the edge is trimmed.

23A1C2E9-745D-4080-85DF-A09CCCED10D8.thumb.jpeg.5eaca7d64f1b02f01ffed9b7a5f4c752.jpeg

Perhaps I can offer a bit more insight. On a book that's this important to our hobby, the top graders and restoration experts at CGC would be involved in determining if the book has restoration. This decision would not be taken lightly. At CGC, there are numerous folks with years and years of experience in restoration detection. Whether it's amateur or more calculated, trimming is usually fairly easy to detect if you know what to look for. If you decide to resubmit it for another look, be prepared for the same result---it's not very likely they made a mistake on a book this important to our hobby. Good luck with whatever you decide to pursue, and thanks for posting!   

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13 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I don't see a spine roll on your book, at least in the traditional sense. I hope we are not at a point in this hobby where we think a press fixes everything. First off, because of the signature, you will have to submit it to CGC in the slab, as is. They will know it was designated trimmed.  The guy doing the pressing at CCS, Chris Friesen, is an expert in the field of restoration. You also have Matt Nelson probably finalizing a Walkthrough book like this. It would not simply slip by them. Do you really think they will change their mind after a press? If you feel this strongly that they made a mistake, I would submit it for an evaluation. Otherwise, I would sell this book and move on, it's obviously bothering you. 

Good points made, Bob. Even if Chris or Matt didn't see this book, there are several very experienced graders at CGC that are extremely competent at spotting various forms of restoration. Even from the pictures posted here, it's pretty obvious the right edge of the cover has been trimmed...  

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