The current state of the comic book market 0

[bc]

4 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

I’ve never liked four color on newsprint. That’s really what got me into indies as a kid. Black and white was better than that muddy blotchy mess of colors that usually didn’t even line up correctly. And then you’d find indies with better color, Baxter paper, just higher quality materials. And not everyone was wearing green pants with a purple shirt. I prefer black and white reprints of EC comics over recreating the four color process 

I concede all your points in your post. 

But since many agree that the current cover price compared to the entertainment value is an issue, how many new readers/collectors will be added with cheap (lower page quality like newsprint) b&w reprints that haven't been already been addressed by the current TPB/reprint market? That proposed solution is basically addressing the same user base. And yes, I endorsed that idea before.

Reducing the number of monthly issues to have better quality art & content isn't viable when I can get a month of unlimited video content for nearly the same price (or less).

As the number of LCS's are reduced, the number of locations for the consumer to even buy a comic book is diminishing which reduces exposure and demand to the next generation of collectors. 

The variant market is a self-consuming event horizon. Eventually the business risk of controlling cash flow will overcome the potential reward and no one will want to be the last man standing.

As bandwidth becomes more available and more accessible, video content distribution methods will become the expected model in the not to distant future. How the holders of the copyrights chooses to embrace that will impact this hobby in the long term. I see my nephews, nieces & grandkids happily watching many of the Marvel  & DC character cartoons on TV but they have no desire to sit down and read a 6 issue+ story arc.

 

 

[dupont2005]

From what I’ve heard it’s actually not cheaper to print four color on newsprint because of the outdated hardware required. 

To lower costs they could print more pages per issue creating a better value. Maybe keeping 22 pages of new content, or even reducing it to 18-20 pages, and then reprinting old stories or using stories from the cutting room floor to fill space. Maybe combining titles. A Superman/Batman title. Not sure their advertising is raising a whole lot of revenue, the indies seem to do fine without it. Bringing back subscriptions and selling direct to the consumer.

But really, they have to ditch print if they want to be cheap enough to entice a new generation to try comics

[bc]

1 minute ago, dupont2005 said:

From what I’ve heard it’s actually not cheaper to print four color on newsprint because of the outdated hardware required. 

To lower costs they could print more pages per issue creating a better value. Maybe keeping 22 pages of new content, or even reducing it to 18-20 pages, and then reprinting old stories or using stories from the cutting room floor to fill space. Maybe combining titles. A Superman/Batman title. Not sure their advertising is raising a whole lot of revenue, the indies seem to do fine without it. Bringing back subscriptions and selling direct to the consumer.

But really, they have to ditch print if they want to be cheap enough to entice a new generation to try comics

So this past Christmas, I checked out what all the young people in my large Sicilian family were getting. Mainly a lot of iPhones, iPads and some kind of Apple and Amazon gift cards (iTunes maybe - don't know). 

Basically it was all endpoints and digital content purchasing cards. They didn't want a Barbie doll, Transformer or Lego's or the physical toys of our past, there was some clothes, but nothing like the pile of different toy boxes when we were kids. Maybe I'm the Luddite, but that's when I realized our hobby's future is tied to digital delivery opportunities and not physical delivery issues that the original article was focused on. 

Granted, there are probably significant changes that would benefit the current distribution system but that is just repainting the bus stop newsstand you mentioned earlier.

 

[dupont2005]

The market for print will exist as long as us collectors are alive so it’s not as if they need to stop making monthly floppies, but the younger generation for the most part isn’t going to be interested in that. To expand the market they have to convince those kids to download Comixology

[batman_fan]

They still publish new comics?  Who  knew?

[mrc]

7 hours ago, dupont2005 said:

The market for print will exist as long as us collectors are alive so it’s not as if they need to stop making monthly floppies, but the younger generation for the most part isn’t going to be interested in that. To expand the market they have to convince those kids to download Comixology

Depends what you mean by the 'younger generation' exactly. Most kids I know still read and enjoy books and comics (if they're cheap enough) and also the shopping experience of going to a bookstore or jumble sale. The only thing that grabs their attention online, is playing video games!  

[Prince Namor]

On 3/1/2019 at 9:11 PM, DavidTheDavid said:

https://www.cbr.com/january-2019-comic-sales-analysis-marvel-dc/

https://cosmicbook.news/disney-shutting-down-marvel-comics

More news item (the second speculative) on the topic.

'speculative' is right. There is nothing in that article offering anything of proof or credence to its headline. 

[Prince Namor]

Comics have been more firmly aiming their sites on the most gullible target for 30+ years now - the collector. And they do it through the Direct Market Retailer. Everything Marvel, in particular, does is aimed at making the retailer buy more copies. Order 110% of what you ordered for SKU11234 and you can order as many of this variant as you want. For every 25 copies of SKU12543 you can order one of THIS variant. Order 150% of SKU 654123 and take 5% off... etc. etc. etc.

Retailers have to think, "Who do I have that wants THIS variant... who's the artist on THIS variant...". Next thing you know you're ordering a whole bunch of useless extra copies - BUT that is what Marvel WANTS, because THEIR belief is that RETAILERS aren't ordering enough of their product, and THAT is why sales are down.

 For the collector it's the same old thing... a NEW #1, someone gets married, someone dies, someone replaces them, someone comes back, something is revealed - but VERY FEW collectors have an interest in that CONTENT - for them it's - "This could be a KEY issue"... I'd better get the 1:25 variant, and the 1:50 variant and the 1:100 variant...

If you TAKE AWAY all of these variants... not only do the stores lose out, but MARVEL loses out on a HUGE percentage of their sales. (Marvel has no interest in the secondary market, other than letting the retailers and guys like jaydog try and convince people that these manufactured 'collectibles' are rare or limited). WITHOUT that... the NEW comics market as we know it today would be crippled and plain and simply over with. 

All of the things people complain about on these boards (variants, a NEW #1, someone gets married, someone dies, etc., etc.) are what is keeping the hobby afloat. Who's raving about what great stories AVATAR PRESS is putting out? How long until DC simply reboots their entire Universe again? Is there really anything of interest to follow and add to the mythos of Spider-man?

It's all YOUR fault. (If you're still buying this junk).

Ed Brubaker writing Daredevil? The numbers were pretty average unless they did variants/special events, etc. A new #1 of Captain America? It spiked and then quickly took a dive. Books aimed at diversifying our audience? Niche sales and Nerd Outrage. 

See? All you turn up for is the CR#P.

It's YOUR fault.

You've gotten exactly the hobby you deserve.

 

[Prince Namor]

The writing is on the wall for comics.

Used CD/DVD stores are drying up... comic book stores are closing down... online content sales are up. I bought a DVD at a convention the other day - it felt weird - what do I do with this? It just seems a pain to have to hook up my dvd player to my laptop and then have to take it out, store it... ugh. And CD's? No thank you. Most likely its on Spotify. 

Comic Book stores? Such fond memories of going into one and looking through... back issues? Where are the back issues? No, NOT overstock from the last three years, or books from the early 2000's or junk from the late 90's or overstock still around from the mid-90's or complete garbage from the early 90's or... oh god, not the 80's... wait... you don't even have anything from the 80's?

Anything I want to read is just a click away...

[Aweandlorder]

14 hours ago, dupont2005 said:

I’ve never liked four color on newsprint. That’s really what got me into indies as a kid. Black and white was better than that muddy blotchy mess of colors that usually didn’t even line up correctly. And then you’d find indies with better color, Baxter paper, just higher quality materials. And not everyone was wearing green pants with a purple shirt. I prefer black and white reprints of EC comics over recreating the four color process 

+1

i would LOVE to own comic format reproductions of early Art Adams work from the 80s. His heavily detailed work was always smeared from the color and printing process. I'm sure that many others would find certain books that they would love to see reprinted in a much better quality paper and color process AND in comic format. 

I HATE reading tpb, they're bulky and I always feel like I'm damaging the spine each time I just open one up. I'm much more comfortable with a one/one comic replica of the original. Don't change a thing with the content or covers. Just reprint the damn thing with great quality

[Ken Aldred]

9 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

i would LOVE to own comic format reproductions of early Art Adams work from the 80s. His heavily detailed work was always smeared from the color and printing process.

I have the digital version of Longshot.  So much clearer than my original copies. Far superior.

The work deserves better repro quality, regardless of format.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Ken Aldred

[Aweandlorder]

Just now, Ken Aldred said:

I have the digital version of Longshot.  So much clearer than my original copies.

Now I gotta go look for one too!

but seriously think about it, wouldn't u pay cover price for a reprint edition of that series if it was released today? 

Companies like IDW (which I hear are going under as well) put out some AMAZING comic presentations on quality paper with some of the weirdest and off the wall content. No wonder no one buys them. Wouldn't it be more lucrative for them to reprint those books from the 70s/80s and cater to the current demographic that owns a large share of the market? 

I'm sure that many of us old timers would love to re-own high quality representations of books featuring their favorite artists. Theres a boat load of, not necessarily key, Byrne, Adams, BWS, Wrightson books out there that would look amazing on high quality comic paper. And I'm sure plenty of us would buy it. You wouldn't need to "incentivize" them. You wouldn't need to have variants for them. They wouldn't need to be "optioned". ABSOLUTELY no sales tactic is needed here. Just have them hit the comic racks and watch them sell out 

[Aweandlorder]

Btw I find it hard to believe that in this age of EVERYTHING superheroes that we live in that comic book stores are going out of business. That's not to suggest that current comic sales are up. But the secondary market is, by far, at an all time high. And so is merchandising, toys, posters, magnets, light switches... 

Royal Collectibles, a longtime family owned comic store in Queens, just announced a few weeks ago that they are opening another location in Astoria. They are the smart players in this current environment we live in. You walk into their store at any given time and you're overwhelmed with their merch displays. Huge statues, perfectly polished comic displays of current titles. Beautiful and well organized back stock section. The works. A few years ago they first expanded to a second store down the block. And instead of doubling up on inventory, they separated their sport section into that store. Smart move. Now they are opening another location. 

If you're just sitting at your store bulking up on current titles and whatever diamond/marvel/dc sends your way to incentivize sales and hoping it will sell and you'll stay in business without operating as a COLLECTIBLE store, not a newsstand comic stationary, you will be out of business in no time

[mrc]

58 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

The work deserves better repro quality, regardless of format.

.........and that is the key. Format wars will continue but having that choice is a real luxury. In the future I may well download a comic or rent a movie online, but my favourite comics will be hard copies. My favourite movies will be on DVD/BLU Ray and my favourite music will always be on vinyl. I'm also wary of taking out subscriptions and fight to maintain my freedom of choice. 

[Ken Aldred]

50 minutes ago, mrc said:

.........and that is the key. Format wars will continue but having that choice is a real luxury. In the future I may well download a comic or rent a movie online, but my favourite comics will be hard copies. My favourite movies will be on DVD/BLU Ray and my favourite music will always be on vinyl. I'm also wary of taking out subscriptions and fight to maintain my freedom of choice. 

+1

Despite my obvious fondness for digital comics, I'll always have some favourites as physical, hard copies.  

Edited March 3, 2019 by Ken Aldred

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

+1

Despite my obvious fondness for digital comics, I'll always have some favourites as physical, hard copies.  

Me too. But a whole generation is growing up with digital as their go to means. It's kinda bleak for the future of the hobby. Though maybe this way they'll actually enjoy it for the content instead of the package. The way it should be...

[dupont2005]

Me too. Although for certain series I prefer a nice hardcover and certain series I prefer the floppies. And sometimes I want both. I do love reading on my iPad though.

[Prince Namor]

Think of all the things a 20 year old buys now that he DIDN'T have to buy 30 years ago when he could get still get 10 comics + tax for $10 (as long as there were a few DC's in there):

cell phone bill - $40 to $200 a month

home wifi/internet - $40-$50 a month

Hulu TV - now $45 a month

Netflix - $8 a month

Amazon Prime - $5 a month ($60 a year) to get Prime

XBox Live or Playstation Online - $10 to $60 a month

Spotify - $9.99 a month

and that doesn't include game purchases, online downloadable content, cell phone games, apps, etc.

 

Would you give up all of THAT to buy $200 worth of TODAY's comics per month?

[PunisherPunisherPunisher]

The industry is due for another reboot 

 

[Skylath]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Think of all the things a 20 year old buys now that he DIDN'T have to buy 30 years ago when he could get still get 10 comics + tax for $10 (as long as there were a few DC's in there):

cell phone bill - $40 to $200 a month

home wifi/internet - $40-$50 a month

Hulu TV - now $45 a month

Netflix - $8 a month

Amazon Prime - $5 a month ($60 a year) to get Prime

XBox Live or Playstation Online - $10 to $60 a month

Spotify - $9.99 a month 

and that doesn't include game purchases, online downloadable content, cell phone games, apps, etc.

 

Would you give up all of THAT to buy $200 worth of TODAY's comics per month?

Not all of us twenty year olds necessarily get ALL of those things (basically the only thing I pay out of those right now is my phone bill), but yeah no, nobody in their right mind would give all that up for glorified drek, haha. Almost how I won't pay to go see KISS on their final tour right now. Why? Because in their current iteration they're just a glorified cover band compared to 1983 and back when they were in their prime (sans Dynasty, Unmasked, and Music from "the Elder").

Edited March 4, 2019 by Skylath