The Whole Qualified Label Thing
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Posted (edited)

Hi, A recent auction I saw made me see something I had never paid attention to before which is the CGC census numbers of Qualified grades of some major Silver Keys.

According to CGC

Qualified Label (Green)

A Qualified label is used by CGC for certified books that have a significant defect that needs specific description, or to note an unauthenticated signature (one which was not witnessed by CGC). For example, a comic book with a missing coupon that otherwise grades 6.0 will receive a Qualified grade, avoiding a considerably lower grade. CGC would give this book a Qualified grade of 6.0 and a Label Text notation “COUPON MISSING FROM PAGE 10, DOES NOT AFFECT STORY.” Or, if the book is signed on the cover it may be noted as “NAME WRITTEN ON COVER IN MARKER.”

Is that 2 criteria? A "name" written or a "coupon" missing? Am I missing something?

Well to me writing is writing whether its a signature or something else like a name, a number, a date,ect. Its all writing on the book.

By a coupon they seem to mean the section in an ad that you must fill in, cut out, and send in the mail. Like for selling shoes or seeds or getting those 200 toy soldiers for 1.98. This usually amounts to 1/6 to 1/4 of a page missing. Whether its a coupon or not its a part of a page missing. A small percentage of the interior of the comic missing.

Ok. So here are some numbers for some of the big Silver Keys.
Showcase 4 - 468 graded, 4 qualified. FF 1 - 2216 graded , 16 qualifiedAF 15 - 3135 graded, 43 qualified. ASM 1 - 3709 graded, 38 qualified, JIM 83 - 1781 graded, 21 qualified, TOS 39 - 2104 graded, 18 qualified, Incredible Hulk 1 - 1634 graded, 24 qualified, X-Men 1 -  4461 graded with a whopping 62 qualified. 

I checked a few big Bronzes and found for example HOS 92 - 2057 graded, 14 qualified, Giant X-Men 1 -  7918 graded, 11 qualified. Hulk 181 had 11,724 graded with 606 qualified which I believe many may be due to missing value stamps?

These qualified numbers seem very low to me. Assuming they are grading these using only the un-verified signature and missing coupon criteria it still seems low.

I wonder if a lot of books that could be graded as qualified get graded Blue Label with a lesser grade. The qualified numbers just seem very low to me percentage-wise.  And like I said at least to me writing is writing despite what is written and part of a page missing is part of a page missing whether its a coupon or not. 

Any thoughts?  Thank you.

 

 

Edited by Dinosaur Jr.

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7 hours ago, Dinosaur Jr. said:

I wonder if a lot of books that could be graded as qualified get graded Blue Label with a lesser grade. The qualified numbers just seem very low to me percentage-wise.  And like I said at least to me writing is writing despite what is written and part of a page missing is part of a page missing whether its a coupon or not. 

Any thoughts?  Thank you.

Uh, yeah.

Green = Grade if coupon was still there. Let's use your 6.0 as an example.

Blue = Big hit to overall grade. 4.0.

Green does not "account" for the "defect". Blue does. So, a Q label book with a sig might take a .5 hit if you wanted blue.

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Interesting observation. You're right about the Hulk #181---most of the Qualified copies are undoubtedly due to the missing MVS. That's the first thing people look for on that book. And as Two Piece pointed out, a signature written on the cover will usually be Qualified if the book is in mid to high grade. If it's lower grade, it'll be factored into the overall grade. But many books will often be Qualified for missing pages or other serious defects, and in these cases, if the books weren't Qualified, you'd be looking at a grade of .5. However, I think most people would rather have a blue label book even if the grade is significantly lower than the Qualified book would be. So this could be one of the reasons the Qualified numbers are relatively low on the CGC census. I hope this helps...

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Yes thanks. Youre right most people including myself would take a Blue label lower grade any day. It just seems to me the rules for slabbing a book with a green label are not always followed. If they were I believe there would be many more Green Labels in the census. 

My solution is: Eliminate the Green Label and make graders notes FREE. :acclaim:

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1 hour ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

Yes thanks. Youre right most people including myself would take a Blue label lower grade any day. It just seems to me the rules for slabbing a book with a green label are not always followed. If they were I believe there would be many more Green Labels in the census. 

My solution is: Eliminate the Green Label and make graders notes FREE. :acclaim:

That gave me a good laugh...

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Yeah I know it'll never happen but maybe a certain amount of free graders notes with a paid membership.

Although I think graders notes should be listed on the back of the slab. I wasn't thinking of this when I started the topic but it would be a way to eliminate the Green Label, because it seems to me assigning that label is not consistent. 

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14 hours ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

Yeah I know it'll never happen but maybe a certain amount of free graders notes with a paid membership.

Although I think graders notes should be listed on the back of the slab. I wasn't thinking of this when I started the topic but it would be a way to eliminate the Green Label, because it seems to me assigning that label is not consistent. 

If you haven't already, check out the Heritage site for comics that have received a Qualified label. It's educational and entertaining...

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10 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

If you haven't already, check out the Heritage site for comics that have received a Qualified label. It's educational and entertaining...

I just did. I only found 1 greeny currently for sale but their past auctions have some nice ones. For example an AF 15 3.0 with 1 married wrap for $2868.00. To me thats not as bad as an most restored books. For less than 3K? I'll take it. I will take it.

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I get that. But your not going to see a qualified 9.2 that is equal to a .5.

I look at a lot of comics and I see Blue Labels with pages missing and signatures on them all the time. By CGC's own criteria, their own rules , those should be qualified. Judging by the very low numbers of qualified Silver and Gold books plus the many Blue Labels I see with missing pages and signatures it seems they don't follow their own rules too much. To me its either Green Label them all or don't Green Label any of them. That's just me.

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I just want to say that I love Dinosaur Jr. 

The BAND that is. :headbang:

 

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10 hours ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

But your not going to see a qualified 9.2 that is equal to a .5.

Sure you are. No Qualified label, and that 9.2 with a missing page is a .5...and you have no idea what the rest of the book grades.

It's one of the many missteps of CBCS. If I see a .5 with a missing page, I'd still like to know what the general condition of the rest of the book is. 

 

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10 hours ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

I look at a lot of comics and I see Blue Labels with pages missing and signatures on them all the time. By CGC's own criteria, their own rules , those should be qualified.

That's not true. And if that's not true, what follows is also not true. A book that has a "Qualifying" defect need not be placed in a Qualified holder. The Qualified label is a courtesy, not a requirement.

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Posted (edited)

Ok well we just see it differently thats all. You see it as a courtesy which is used at times without any rhyme nor reason and I see it as inconsistency in grading. Basically I can send in to nearly identical comics both with the name Stan Lee written on the cover, 1 could come back green and one could come back blue and they both will say "Stan Lee written in pen on front cover".

Another thing I've seen is a Greeny with a married centerfold. I've seen purple with the same thing. I don't know, seems to me they are nowhere near consistent in assigning Green. I guess I'm done , take care

 

Edited by Dinosaur jr.

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14 hours ago, newshane said:

I just want to say that I love Dinosaur Jr. 

The BAND that is. :headbang:

 

Band? No man I'm named after my father Dinosaur Sr.

What?

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6 minutes ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

You see it as a courtesy

I don't see it as a courtesy...it IS a courtesy. It is up to the discretion of CGC, but it can also be requested by the submitter. It is not a "rule" or "requirement" that CGC grade a book as Qualified. The problems that lead to a Qualified grade being given can be taken into account, and incorporated in a blue label grade. There IS rhyme and reason, and that reason is that it's a discretionary designation, not a required one (like Restored.) That's the part you're stuck on.

A Qualified 9.4 ASM #92 with "name written on the cover" is the same thing as if the book was given a blue label 8.0, with the signature counted against the grade. Same book, same issue, the only thing different is whether or not the single major flaw is counted against the book or not.

The reason the Qualified numbers "seem low" is because many collectors don't like it. Those collectors are concentrated on Bronze and earlier books. There is a certain stigma that is attached to the green label, which is unfortunate, because it serves a perfectly valid function in the collecting world.

15 minutes ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

Basically I can send in to nearly identical comics both with the name Stan Lee written on the cover, 1 could come back green and one could come back blue and they both will say "Stan Lee written in pen on front cover".

That's correct, because the designation is discretionary, not required. Your two books, in the same physical condition, might grade Qualified 9.6 and blue label 8.5. They may or may not say "Stan Lee written on cover" because, again, it's up to the discretion of the grader. They might simply say "name written on cover in marker." 

I like having Qualified 9.6s, rather than blue label 8.5s. That tells me the book is in very nice condition, with the only real "flaw" being the signature. You may not. In your case, I would recommend not buying green labels, and, if you submit, specifically requesting blue labels.

 

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On 4/10/2019 at 6:16 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

No need to eliminate the Qualified label. It serves a very nice function in the grading world. There are lots of books that would grade ".5" for example, because they're missing a page, but otherwise look extremely nice. I'd far rather have a Qualified 9.2 with a missing page, than a blue label .5

 

 

17 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Sure you are. No Qualified label, and that 9.2 with a missing page is a .5...and you have no idea what the rest of the book grades.

It's one of the many missteps of CBCS. If I see a .5 with a missing page, I'd still like to know what the general condition of the rest of the book is. 

 

100% in agreement with this. I

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I got two books back that had missing pages, both ASM 20. I cracked the blue 0.5 to sell it raw, and am auctioning the green 7.0 intact.

Draw your own conclusion as to how I gauged the value. :)

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So 1 came back blue and one came back green? They both had the same flaw which was missing pages.

That's what I'm talking about. 2 books-Same flaw-Different Label. That is the definition of inconsistency.

3 hours ago, oldrover said:

I got two books back that had missing pages, both ASM 20. I cracked the blue 0.5 to sell it raw, and am auctioning the green 7.0 intact.

Draw your own conclusion as to how I gauged the value. :)

 

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12 minutes ago, Dinosaur jr. said:

So 1 came back blue and one came back green? They both had the same flaw which was missing pages.

That's what I'm talking about. 2 books-Same flaw-Different Label. That is the definition of inconsistency.

 

I agree. It's not consistent. But people make mistakes. (I mean, not ME... but OTHER people LOL)

Ultimately, it's not about the case. It's about the comic book inside.

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