Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS
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On 5/11/2019 at 11:50 AM, miraclemet said:

wait did CA not also return Thors hammer to (checks chart) BT2?

He had to, to avoid another branch in time (alternate reality).

He didn't have it when he gave the shield to Falcon.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 234wallst said:

Your idea of "well known" is clearly tied directly to TV/movie exposure.  While I certainly agree with much of your list for the 80's - 90's period, there are other ways to know about these characters.  Captain America was on lunch boxes, bicycles, t shirts, under roos, toys, etc.  It seems everyone knew who he was even before the MCU.  I would say he was a bigger / more well known name than Shazam, Aquaman, and Flash Gordon pre-MCU times.

 

underoos.jpg

Edited by @therealsilvermane

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 234wallst said:

Your idea of "well known" is clearly tied directly to TV/movie exposure.  While I certainly agree with much of your list for the 80's - 90's period, there are other ways to know about these characters.  Captain America was on lunch boxes, bicycles, t shirts, under roos, toys, etc.  It seems everyone knew who he was even before the MCU.  I would say he was a bigger / more well known name than Shazam, Aquaman, and Flash Gordon pre-MCU times.

Maybe my top 10 list can be amended, but I'm just not sure Captain America is Top 10 popular pre-MCU, certainly not more than Captain Marvel/ Shazam. Shazam was as big as Superman in the 40's and 50's and became even more well known from his DC revival in the 70's and a lame yet successful TV show in the 70's.

Edited by @therealsilvermane

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23 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Rather than parsing out each statement which can be misinterpreted, let's group this together for an easier chat. :smile:

I think where your head is, along with some others, is a character is not considered A-List until they are in a massively successful movie and from that then everyone across the general audience recognizes them. If that is the case, then you could say many of these comic book films did not contain A-List characters until that time. But with Marvel live and animated productions, its characters have been out there for the general audience since 1966 (not counting the Timely Captain America serial from 1944).

  • 1966: The Marvel Super Heroes TV series (Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Sub-Mariner, Thor) (65 episodes combined)
  • 1967-1968: Fantastic Four animated series
  • 1967-1970: Spider-Man animated show
  • 1974-1977: Spidey Super Stories (Sesame Street inserts)
  • 1977-1979: The Amazing Spider-Man TV show
  • 1977-1982: The Incredible Hulk TV show
  • 1978: Doctor Strange TV pilot
  • 1978: The New Fantastic Four animated show
  • 1978-1979: Spider-Man Tokyo Channel 12 TV show
  • 1979: Fred and Barney Meet The Thing animated 
  • 1979-1980: Spider-Woman animated show (16 episodes)
  • 1981-1982: Spider-Man animated show
  • 1981-1983: Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends animated show (Iron Man appears)
  • 1982-1983: The Incredible Hulk animated show
  • 1989: X-Men: Pryde of the X-Men animated pilot
  • 1992-1997: X-Men animates series
  • 1994-1996: Fantastic Four animated series (Marvel Action Hour series)
  • 1994-1996: Iron Man animated series (26 episodes) (Marvel Action Hour series)
  • 1994-1998: Spider-Man The Animated Series
  • 1996-1997: The Incredible Hulk The Animated Series (Marvel Action Hour series)
  • 1998: Silver Surfer The Animated Series
  • 1999-2001: Spider-Man Unlimited animated series
  • 1999-2000: The Avengers: United They Stand (13 episodes)
  • 2000-2003: X-Men: Evolution animated show (52 episodes)
  • 2001-2004: Mutant X TV show
  • 2003: MTV Spider-Man: The New Animated Series (13 episodes)
  • 2006: Blade: The Series TV show
  • 2006: Ultimate Avengers: The Movie direct-to-video animated film
  • 2006: Ultimate Avengers 2: Rise of the Panther direct-to-video animated film
  • 2006-2007: Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes animated show (Iron Man appearances)
  • 2007: The Invincible Iron Man direct-to-video animated film
  • 2007: Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme direct-to-video animated film
  • 2008: Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow direct-to-video animated film

Additionally, Captain America and Iron Man have been used in video games, marketing images and as merchandising for decades. So to assume general audience members had no idea or association of Captain America and Iron Man to Marvel Entertainment over the years before the 2008 and 2011 films would ignore the extensive Marvel library of TV shows, animated productions, games and general marketing.

Let's not forget about those video games that were distributed since 1982 via Atari.

Marvel_Games01.thumb.png.e24aeeb09c7bf605036170b332b5aaf8.png

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1 hour ago, 234wallst said:

Your idea of "well known" is clearly tied directly to TV/movie exposure.  While I certainly agree with much of your list for the 80's - 90's period, there are other ways to know about these characters.  Captain America was on lunch boxes, bicycles, t shirts, under roos, toys, etc.  It seems everyone knew who he was even before the MCU.  I would say he was a bigger / more well known name than Shazam, Aquaman, and Flash Gordon pre-MCU times.

Merchandising like toys and lunchboxes were directly tied to how popular those characters were on TV and movies. Kids were the target audience so cartoons and successful live action TV shows were the biggest way these characters connected to boys and girls. This Toy Biz commercial from 1991 even reflects that. In 1991, the Marvel characters that were most popular were Spider-Man and X-Men because of their cartoons at the time, so this commercial mentions them specifically by name. Iron Man and Captain America are nowhere to be seen.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Merchandising like toys and lunchboxes were directly tied to how popular those characters were on TV and movies. Kids were the target audience so cartoons and successful live action TV shows were the biggest way these characters connected to boys and girls. This Toy Biz commercial from 1991 even reflects that. In 1991, the Marvel characters that were most popular were Spider-Man and X-Men because of their cartoons at the time, so this commercial mentions them specifically by name. Iron Man and Captain America are nowhere to be seen.

 

That's because Captain America and The Avengers (1991) were busy with their video game.

  • Sega Genesis/Mega Drive
  • Super Nintendo Entertainment System
  • Game Boy and Game Gear
  • Nintendo Entertainment System (NES)
  • Arcade

 

Edited by Bosco685

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My dad was into comics and cartoons and movies from the 1970's until about Y2K, and Captain America was an A-list Marvel character the entire time, according to him.

He's not very well-versed in non-A-list comic character TBH. Has to always ask me about whoever he doesn't recognize in the modern movies.

So there's that.

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5 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

You're delusional...

...Says the captain of the Endgame Eaglettes.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Batman said:

...Says the captain of the Endgame Eaglettes.

The only thing I'm Captain of is the Midwest Dingleberries hockey club.

Edited by TwoPiece

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On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:19 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

To be more accurate, Endgame was the cherry on top of 20+ entertaining moneymaking Marvel Studios movies which revolutionized blockbuster moviemaking with its successful extended universe experiment which DC has failed to replicate competently so far and whose Justice League movie crashed and burned so bad that people lost jobs over it.

If you wanted to be more accurate, you should’ve started your reply with “Endgame is better than Shazam! because…” All you’ve done is defaulted to the MCU v DCEU argument. That’s just lazy. No one’s arguing Marvel hasn’t been incredibly successful with their cinematic universe. Hell, there are even some great movies in there. However, Endgame is just another Marvel movie in a whole bunch of Marvel movies. Same characters, same storyline. Shazam! on the other hand is a refreshing change. Something a little bit different in a movie world saturated with superhero team up flicks.

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4 hours ago, Batman said:

All you’ve done is defaulted to the MCU v DCEU argument. That’s just lazy. No one’s arguing Marvel hasn’t been incredibly successful with their cinematic universe. Hell, there are even some great movies in there. However, Endgame is just another Marvel movie in a whole bunch of Marvel movies. Same characters, same storyline. Shazam! on the other hand is a refreshing change. Something a little bit different in a movie world saturated with superhero team up flicks.

To be fair, you invited the "Marvel is better than DC" truth nugget with your initial ridiculous comparison of Shazam to Avengers Endgame. Shazam is a standalone origin movie for a single character (or at least starts that way until it too becomes a team up flick). Endgame is only partly a single movie. It's also a sequel, it's an event, a going away party, the final chapter of a Part One book, It doesn't exist without incoming storylines from other movies. It's like the final issue of a Marvel Comics event mini-series with crossover issues in every title. It can't exist alone. If one doesn't care about any of the other storylines feeding into this grand finale story, then it doesn't work for them. But millions of people around the world do care, and this movie is for that audience. Shazam, on the other hand, stands on its own merits. And if you prefer that, fine. But to try to compare that movie with Endgame which is an event movie, which I guess is a new concept in cinema, is a ridiculous comparison, which I'm assuming was your intent.

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6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

To be fair, you invited the "Marvel is better than DC" truth nugget with your initial ridiculous comparison of Shazam to Avengers Endgame. Shazam is a standalone origin movie for a single character (or at least starts that way until it too becomes a team up flick). Endgame is only partly a single movie. It's also a sequel, it's an event, a going away party, the final chapter of a Part One book, It doesn't exist without incoming storylines from other movies. It's like the final issue of a Marvel Comics event mini-series with crossover issues in every title. It can't exist alone. If one doesn't care about any of the other storylines feeding into this grand finale story, then it doesn't work for them. But millions of people around the world do care, and this movie is for that audience. Shazam, on the other hand, stands on its own merits. And if you prefer that, fine. But to try to compare that movie with Endgame which is an event movie, which I guess is a new concept in cinema, is a ridiculous comparison, which I'm assuming was your intent.

He's busy playing the Captain America and The Avengers (1991) arcade game. Let him be.

:baiting:

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7 hours ago, Batman said:

If you wanted to be more accurate, you should’ve started your reply with “Endgame is better than Shazam! because…” All you’ve done is defaulted to the MCU v DCEU argument. That’s just lazy. No one’s arguing Marvel hasn’t been incredibly successful with their cinematic universe. Hell, there are even some great movies in there. However, Endgame is just another Marvel movie in a whole bunch of Marvel movies. Same characters, same storyline. Shazam! on the other hand is a refreshing change. Something a little bit different in a movie world saturated with superhero team up flicks.

I enjoyed Endgame more, but Shazam was a more interesting and arguably better movie.

Im hoping for a Shazam sequel. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

To be fair, you invited the "Marvel is better than DC" truth nugget with your initial ridiculous comparison of Shazam to Avengers Endgame. Shazam is a standalone origin movie for a single character (or at least starts that way until it too becomes a team up flick). Endgame is only partly a single movie. It's also a sequel, it's an event, a going away party, the final chapter of a Part One book, It doesn't exist without incoming storylines from other movies. It's like the final issue of a Marvel Comics event mini-series with crossover issues in every title. It can't exist alone. If one doesn't care about any of the other storylines feeding into this grand finale story, then it doesn't work for them. But millions of people around the world do care, and this movie is for that audience. Shazam, on the other hand, stands on its own merits. And if you prefer that, fine. But to try to compare that movie with Endgame which is an event movie, which I guess is a new concept in cinema, is a ridiculous comparison, which I'm assuming was your intent.

To be fair, I didn’t. It’s just in your head :wink:

 

As for my “ridiculous argument”, if it was that ridiculous, why put so much effort into your response? I took two current superhero flicks and said one was better than the other. Not that ridiculous when you think about it.

 

So we’re completely clear, I’ll rewrite my initial statement:

 

The MCU, on the whole, has been more successful and more entertaining than the DCEU. However, Shazam! was far more entertaining than the three hour "event movie" Endgame :baiting:

Edited by Batman

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3 hours ago, Batman said:

As for my “ridiculous argument”, if it was that ridiculous, why put so much effort into your response? I took two current superhero flicks and said one was better than the other. Not that ridiculous when you think about it.

So we’re completely clear, I’ll rewrite my initial statement:

The MCU, on the whole, has been more successful and more entertaining than the DCEU. However, Shazam! was far more entertaining than the three hour "event movie" Endgame :baiting:

It wasn't so much effort, trust me. If I really put more effort into it I might have added more supporting statements and made grammar edits.

Okay, fine. "Shazam! was far more entertaining than Endgame" for you and other folks with an implicit bias for all things DC. I mean, your avatar is Batman...

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44 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

It wasn't so much effort, trust me. If I really put more effort into it I might have added more supporting statements and made grammar edits.

Okay, fine. "Shazam! was far more entertaining than Endgame" for you and other folks with an implicit bias for all things DC. I mean, your avatar is Batman...

You do realize that your opinion is entirely inconsequential to his opinion, right?

You're arguing against his perception. You're wrong. His perception, to himself and expressed as such, is correct.

I don't understand why you continually back yourself into these corners.

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I am a perpetual DC Comics supporter both on paper and on the screen. That does not blind one from having a legitimate opinion about one or the other, or competing brands, etc.

I suspect that Batman couldn't care less about Endgame being a Marvel Studios production. Obviously, he spent the money to see the movie. He has the right to his opinion. I suspect that I will disagree with it after I see Shazam.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

I don't understand why you continually back yourself into these corners.

Having corners is a state of mind...

Edited by @therealsilvermane

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