PPP Top 5 in hobby
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1 hour ago, rob_react said:

The average (!!!) grade for Superman #1 is 2.48

Detective #27? 4.86

Action #1? 4.10

Marvel Comics #1? 4.48

Cap #1? 5.02

Batman #1? 3.48 (from a very high number)

 

 

Super interesting stat !   

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It was mentioned that Cap#1s were dropping in price?  If we’re still talking about 1.0 universals, I haven’t seen a drop.  

Infact 1.0 entry levels seem to be climbing all the time on key golden age books.  Is AF#15 in a 1.0 really gonna beat a Cap 1 or Marvel 1 or Flash 1, Wonder Woman 1?  Hard to believe it’s worth it...

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40 minutes ago, Knightsofold said:

It was mentioned that Cap#1s were dropping in price?  If we’re still talking about 1.0 universals, I haven’t seen a drop.  

Infact 1.0 entry levels seem to be climbing all the time on key golden age books.  Is AF#15 in a 1.0 really gonna beat a Cap 1 or Marvel 1 or Flash 1, Wonder Woman 1?  Hard to believe it’s worth it...

I think the low grade entry level books will always have a higher price per point because there’s more people can vie for the book at that end of the pool.  Above entry level books, the number of people who can afford to bid dwindles considerably. Fewer bidders gets a lower price per point, even though the book is higher grade and, overall, costs more than the entry level book.

i know this is true with golden age and have no reason to think it would be otherwise on a high demand silver book like AF 15. Whether it becomes pricier than the golden age keys, I don’t know.

i think the trick is to find an entry level book with good eye appeal, because they are not all created equal 

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3 hours ago, rob_react said:

There are a ton of Batman #1.  It's still surprisingly low average. It's abundant in high grade though.

 Books CGC Label CGC Total Avg. Grade 10 9.9 9.8 9.6 9.4 9.2 9.0 8.5 8.0 7.5 7.0 6.5 6.0 5.5 5.0 4.5 4.0 3.5 3.0 2.5 2.0 1.8 1.5 1.0 0.5
 Batman 1 (Spring 1940,D.C. Comics) Universal 115 3.43           1 2 3 5 2 3 4 2 4 6 3 10 7 5 9 8 7 10 9 15

Edited 2 hours ago by rob_react

easier read

Capture.JPG

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5 hours ago, Superman2006 said:

But Tec #27 is the first book with Batman content, whereas Superman #1 isn't close to the first book with Superman content (it follows Action 1, 2, 3, 4...). Sure, while it is mostly reprint material, it does have a cool extended origin, and cool cover, and a #1 on the cover, but Tec #33 isn't anywhere near as valuable as Tec #27...  Supes #1 is a great book, but if resale value wasn't a factor, I'd pick a number of other GA giants ahead of it (still top 10 obviously, but not as high as current FMV would place it). Just my opinion of course, and I can totally understand others that feel otherwise...

There are no right or wrong takes here.

Simply pointing out that flaw in saying that Superman #1’s reprinted material is a reason for it not to be a Top-3 book when the #2 book in our hobby has the same amount of original superhero content (less if you include Superman #1’s text story).

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1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I think the low grade entry level books will always have a higher price per point because there’s more people can vie for the book at that end of the pool.  Above entry level books, the number of people who can afford to bid dwindles considerably. Fewer bidders gets a lower price per point, even though the book is higher grade and, overall, costs more than the entry level book.

i know this is true with golden age and have no reason to think it would be otherwise on a high demand silver book like AF 15. Whether it becomes pricier than the golden age keys, I don’t know.

i think the trick is to find an entry level book with good eye appeal, because they are not all created equal 

Agreed. When entry level price points hit 5 figures, the lower grade entry level (.5 - 1.0) complete books sustain a healthy pp and base entry level cost as the pool of buyers that can afford a 10K copy is much bigger than the pool swimming in the 100K level. We have seen this with books at lower price points (Hulk 181) when the floor cost is still around $1k but because many copies are available the pp's are clouded together in the 4.0 - 6.0 range. 

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2 hours ago, Knightsofold said:

It was mentioned that Cap#1s were dropping in price?  If we’re still talking about 1.0 universals, I haven’t seen a drop.  

Infact 1.0 entry levels seem to be climbing all the time on key golden age books.  Is AF#15 in a 1.0 really gonna beat a Cap 1 or Marvel 1 or Flash 1, Wonder Woman 1?  Hard to believe it’s worth it...

in the 3.0 - 7.0 range price points have appeared to soften a little. The 7.0 on HA just went for $228K, but the price point on entry level, complete Cap 1s are still relatively higher from what I have seen. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I think the low grade entry level books will always have a higher price per point because there’s more people can vie for the book at that end of the pool.  Above entry level books, the number of people who can afford to bid dwindles considerably. Fewer bidders gets a lower price per point, even though the book is higher grade and, overall, costs more than the entry level book.

i know this is true with golden age and have no reason to think it would be otherwise on a high demand silver book like AF 15. Whether it becomes pricier than the golden age keys, I don’t know.

i think the trick is to find an entry level book with good eye appeal, because they are not all created equal 

Agreed.  At the upper nose-bleed grade levels the difference between one grade and the next is fairly consistent.   You're generally talking about a book that has, say, two spine tics instead of one.   The worst eye appeal 9.6 of a particular issue is unlikely to be a whole lot less than the one with the best eye appeal.  The difference between one and the other is very narrow. 
At the lower end it is the opposite.  One 2.0 can look a whole lot better than another one.   A whole heckuva hellluva lot better.  And the lower you go the wider the gulf.  One .5 can be look almost like a VF except for some buge chews or split spine or missing coupon you would never ever look at anyway no matter how many times you took the book out and admired it.  While another .5 can quite literally be lacking in absolutely everything which makes the book valuable in the first place.  The hero's face can be eaten away by mold and obscured by ink stains.  There can be a page missing and it can be the single most important page in the book.   But the grade on the label will be just exactly the same as that book which looks fantastic and can be enjoyed and just has some technical structural flaws.

Another factor making it difficult if not impossible to have PPP as some set formula which applies to every book is that one book may have thousands of copies in low grade and just a few in high grade.  Or vice versa, the vast majority in high grade and hardly any in low grade.   How then can PPP be applied as if it was a measurement of how many carats are in a diamond or how much gold is in a bar?

Edited by bluechip

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7 hours ago, bluechip said:

Agreed.  At the upper nose-bleed grade levels the difference between one grade and the next is fairly consistent.   You're generally talking about a book that has, say, two spine tics instead of one.   The worst eye appeal 9.6 of a particular issue is unlikely to be a whole lot less than the one with the best eye appeal.  The difference between one and the other is very narrow. 
At the lower end it is the opposite.  One 2.0 can look a whole lot better than another one.   A whole heckuva hellluva lot better.  And the lower you go the wider the gulf.  One .5 can be look almost like a VF except for some buge chews or split spine or missing coupon you would never ever look at anyway no matter how many times you took the book out and admired it.  While another .5 can quite literally be lacking in absolutely everything which makes the book valuable in the first place.  The hero's face can be eaten away by mold and obscured by ink stains.  There can be a page missing and it can be the single most important page in the book.   But the grade on the label will be just exactly the same as that book which looks fantastic and can be enjoyed and just has some technical structural flaws.

Another factor making it difficult if not impossible to have PPP as some set formula which applies to every book is that one book may have thousands of copies in low grade and just a few in high grade.  Or vice versa, the vast majority in high grade and hardly any in low grade.   How then can PPP be applied as if it was a measurement of how many carats are in a diamond or how much gold is in a bar?

What he said

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17 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

There are no right or wrong takes here.

Simply pointing out that flaw in saying that Superman #1’s reprinted material is a reason for it not to be a Top-3 book when the #2 book in our hobby has the same amount of original superhero content (less if you include Superman #1’s text story).

Fair enough. :)

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17 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

There are no right or wrong takes here.

Simply pointing out that flaw in saying that Superman #1’s reprinted material is a reason for it not to be a Top-3 book when the #2 book in our hobby has the same amount of original superhero content (less if you include Superman #1’s text story).

And to think you have Bruce's  last name hm and Wayne Tec for Detective could have fooled me after this comment :whistle:

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4 hours ago, woowoo said:

And to think you have Bruce's  last name hm and Wayne Tec for Detective could have fooled me after this comment :whistle:

I’ve got to be fair.

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26 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I’ve got to be fair.

hm

conan.jpg

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Interim stats-gathering for a visualization I'm going to do of this data. 

 

Title Issue # Average Grade Total Universal Graded Total Graded date
Action Comics 1 4.1 41   1938/6/1
Detective Comics 27 4.86 32   1939/5
Superman 1 2.48 60   1939/7
All American Comics 16 4.66 24   1940/7
Batman 1 3.43 115   1940/3
Marvel Comics 1 4.48 28   1939/11
Action Comics 7 3.5 29   1938/12
Captain America Comics 1 5.02 80   1941/3
Pep Comics 22 3.59 17   1941/12
Action Comics 10 3.69 18   1939/3
All Star Comics 8 3.82 122   1941/12
Detective Comics 31 3.09 50   1939/9
Whiz 2 3.55 25   1940/2
Detective Comics 29 4.04 39   1939/7
Flash Comics 1 4.15 42   1940/1
Detective Comics 33 3.84 53   1939/11
Action Comics 2 4.4 20   1938/7
archie comics 1 3.33 45   1942/11
Detective Comics 35 3.12 45   1940/1
More Fun 52 4.21 20   1940/2

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rob_react said:

 

Interim stats-gathering for a visualization I'm going to do of this data. 

 

Title Issue # Average Grade Total Universal Graded Total Graded date
Action Comics 1 4.1 41   1938/6/1
Detective Comics 27 4.86 32   1939/5
Superman 1 2.48 60   1939/7
All American Comics 16 4.66 24   1940/7
Batman 1 3.43 115   1940/3
Marvel Comics 1 4.48 28   1939/11
Action Comics 7 3.5 29   1938/12
Captain America Comics 1 5.02 80   1941/3
Pep Comics 22 3.59 17   1941/12
Action Comics 10 3.69 18   1939/3
All Star Comics 8 3.82 122   1941/12
Detective Comics 31 3.09 50   1939/9
Whiz 2 3.55 25   1940/2
Detective Comics 29 4.04 39   1939/7
Flash Comics 1 4.15 42   1940/1
Detective Comics 33 3.84 53   1939/11
Action Comics 2 4.4 20   1938/7
archie comics 1 3.33 45   1942/11
Detective Comics 35 3.12 45   1940/1
More Fun 52 4.21 20   1940/2

Love this !!!  Pep 22 the only mega key  over the last 8 years to see a small increase census wise.  Please fill in the total number of graded books for each when you get the chance. Do you have an educated guesstimate on how many survived overall for the top 5 or so ??  Great stuff Rob as always !!! The Supes 1 average condition is fascinating 

Edited by Chicago Boy

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rob_react said:

 

Interim stats-gathering for a visualization I'm going to do of this data. 

 

Title Issue # Average Grade Total Universal Graded Total Graded date
Action Comics 1 4.1 41   1938/6/1
Detective Comics 27 4.86 32   1939/5
Superman 1 2.48 60   1939/7
All American Comics 16 4.66 24   1940/7
Batman 1 3.43 115   1940/3
Marvel Comics 1 4.48 28   1939/11
Action Comics 7 3.5 29   1938/12
Captain America Comics 1 5.02 80   1941/3
Pep Comics 22 3.59 17   1941/12
Action Comics 10 3.69 18   1939/3
All Star Comics 8 3.82 122   1941/12
Detective Comics 31 3.09 50   1939/9
Whiz 2 3.55 25   1940/2
Detective Comics 29 4.04 39   1939/7
Flash Comics 1 4.15 42   1940/1
Detective Comics 33 3.84 53   1939/11
Action Comics 2 4.4 20   1938/7
archie comics 1 3.33 45   1942/11
Detective Comics 35 3.12 45   1940/1
More Fun 52 4.21 20   1940/2

Capture.JPG.7abfaa29113e0a5d01cbbb4478a5b4b4.JPG

"one of the scarcest" ...*cough*

 

Edited by Gotham Kid

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2 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

The Supes 1 average condition is fascinating 

Tec 35 :baiting:

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37 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Tec 35 :baiting:

Still in the 3’s. :foryou:

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Total graded copies filled in.

 

Title Issue # Average Grade Total Universal Graded Total Graded date
Action Comics 1 4.1 41 71 1938/6/1
Detective Comics 27 4.86 32 68 1939/5
Superman 1 2.48 60 147 1939/7
All American Comics 16 4.66 24 54 1940/7
Batman 1 3.43 115 261 1940/3
Marvel Comics 1 4.48 28 61 1939/11
Action Comics 7 3.5 29 46 1938/12
Captain America Comics 1 5.02 80 165 1941/3
Pep Comics 22 3.59 17 27 1941/12
Action Comics 10 3.69 18 37 1939/3
All Star Comics 8 3.82 122 173 1941/12
Detective Comics 31 3.09 50 89 1939/9
Whiz 2 3.55 25 52 1940/2
Detective Comics 29 4.04 39 63 1939/7
Flash Comics 1 4.15 42 81 1940/1
Detective Comics 33 3.84 53 91 1939/11
Action Comics 2 4.4 20 40 1938/7
archie comics 1 3.33 45 63 1942/11
Detective Comics 35 3.12 45 85 1940/1
More Fun 52 4.21 20 46 1940/2



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Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2019 at 4:01 AM, rob_react said:

 

Interim stats-gathering for a visualization I'm going to do of this data. 

 

Title Issue # Average Grade Total Universal Graded Total Graded date
Action Comics 1 4.1 41   1938/6/1
Detective Comics 27 4.86 32   1939/5
Superman 1 2.48 60   1939/7
All American Comics 16 4.66 24   1940/7
Batman 1 3.43 115   1940/3
Marvel Comics 1 4.48 28   1939/11
Action Comics 7 3.5 29   1938/12
Captain America Comics 1 5.02 80   1941/3
Pep Comics 22 3.59 17   1941/12
Action Comics 10 3.69 18   1939/3
All Star Comics 8 3.82 122   1941/12
Detective Comics 31 3.09 50   1939/9
Whiz 2 3.55 25   1940/2
Detective Comics 29 4.04 39   1939/7
Flash Comics 1 4.15 42   1940/1
Detective Comics 33 3.84 53   1939/11
Action Comics 2 4.4 20   1938/7
archie comics 1 3.33 45   1942/11
Detective Comics 35 3.12 45   1940/1
More Fun 52 4.21 20   1940/2

This would present a better picture if it included the restored copies.   No matter what some people may think of them, a book doesn't cease to exist once it has been color touched.  Poor condition books are included in the tally, so even if every restored book were assumed to be poor, it would still affect the tally.  I see people offering poor condition copies touting them as one of only 68 (or whatever) "universal" copies, which seems to imply that restored books -- which may have always been in much better than poor condition (like by virtue of being complete copies) but have maybe a tear seal or some color touch -- are somehow so much worse that they should be considered virtually non-existent?!

Edited by bluechip

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