20 posts in this topic

I know that I always pay more for CGC graded comics with better page quality. For example, I've found that, nine times out of ten, a comic graded at 8.5 with WHITE Pages is almost always more expensive than the same issue of that comic also graded at an 8.5, but with OFF-WHITE TO WHITE Pages. Because the comic with WHITE Pages costs more to buy, however, is it really more VALUABLE than the same comic with the same grade, but with lower page quality? 

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6 minutes ago, namisgr said:

I'm confused.  If among two comics one costs more to buy than the other, how could it not be more valuable than the other?

This is actually an interesting question that I have not asked yet too.  Does the page quality affect the grade and if so how much?  Between the two 8.5 OP suggested will the off white to white book have less color breaking creases and such?  We are talking about older books here like pre 1970 and they are 50 year old newsprint...

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It's my understanding that page quality will affect the grade only when the pages are tan or worse, or the comic is ultrahigh grade.

Edge tanning of the interior front and back covers is another matter entirely.

 

Edited by namisgr
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23 minutes ago, AwesomeSauce said:

I know that I always pay more for CGC graded comics with better page quality. For example, I've found that, nine times out of ten, a comic graded at 8.5 with WHITE Pages is almost always more expensive than the same issue of that comic also graded at an 8.5, but with OFF-WHITE TO WHITE Pages. Because the comic with WHITE Pages costs more to buy, however, is it really more VALUABLE than the same comic with the same grade, but with lower page quality? 

Well, speaking as a "page quality" guy, page quality itself doesn't usually affect the grade substantially until it dips into the "cream to off-white" area. As I recall, the highest threshold for Cream to Off-White pages used to be a 9.4 (I really hope that hasn't changed) and the highest threshold for Off-White pages used to be 9.6. I prefer White pages myself, but I will settle for Off-White to White. And for me, yes, I will pay more for White pages. 

On the lower end, tan pages or worse can reduce the grade significantly, especially when you get into the "brittle" categories...:fear:

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5 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Well, speaking as a "page quality" guy, page quality itself doesn't usually affect the grade substantially until it dips into the "cream to off-white" area. As I recall, the highest threshold for Cream to Off-White pages used to be a 9.4 (I really hope that hasn't changed) and the highest threshold for Off-White pages used to be 9.6. I prefer White pages myself, but I will settle for Off-White to White. And for me, yes, I will pay more for White pages. 

On the lower end, tan pages or worse can reduce the grade significantly, especially when you get into the "brittle" categories...:fear:

Of course everyone would PREFER white pages and no one wants one turning to dust!  I think my FF52 should have come in at 8.5 but at least it has white pages hehe...

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_762.jpg.6c8d382d37093dd7a00add8cc4ebe70a.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Karl Liebl said:

Of course everyone would PREFER white pages and no one wants one turning to dust!  I think my FF52 should have come in at 8.5 but at least it has white pages hehe...

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_762.jpg.6c8d382d37093dd7a00add8cc4ebe70a.jpg

Nice book!  (thumbsu

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14 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

As I recall, the highest threshold for Cream to Off-White pages used to be a 9.4 (I really hope that hasn't changed) and the highest threshold for Off-White pages used to be 9.6.

ManThing7cgc.jpg.633262cf63e7b636948ac16db871c68d.jpg MOFK22.jpg.a721481c31d5e824777429f4754c591b.jpg

Edited by namisgr
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3 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Thanks for the update...but as a collector, this makes me sad...   

How come?

As the original owner and submitter of these two examples, I can tell you that they're structurally just about perfect, and the cover stock is still snow white.

Edited by namisgr
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8 minutes ago, namisgr said:

How come?

As the original owner and submitter of these two examples, I can tell you that they're structurally just about perfect, and the cover stock is still snow white.

The books look great to me, if anything why did you get lower page quality on them?  Were they stored in an attic or garage or basement?  They are technically newer books...

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8 minutes ago, namisgr said:

How come?

As the original owner and submitter of these two examples, I can tell you that they're structurally just about perfect, and the cover stock is still snow white.

I'm very happy for you, but this reminds me of the time I had front row tickets for a concert until one of the band members told the crowd to "come down to the front". After the dust settled, I had 25th row tickets. But that's OK, I'll get over it...  :whistle:

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32 minutes ago, Karl Liebl said:

The books look great to me, if anything why did you get lower page quality on them?  Were they stored in an attic or garage or basement?  They are technically newer books...

They were stored for 35 years before being sent in for slabbing, the first 20+ without bags or boards.  My copies off the rack ranged from white to cream to off-white when encapsulated.  It depended on the pile.  I think every book published from 1981 onward graded white.

 

Edited by namisgr
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16 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I'm very happy for you, but this reminds me of the time I had front row tickets for a concert until one of the band members told the crowd to "come down to the front". After the dust settled, I had 25th row tickets. But that's OK, I'll get over it...  :whistle:

Well, the numerical grade is the structural one, and is for the most part judged independently of not only page quality, but production values.  How about those 9.8 grades that come with bindery tears at the top spine corner, staples a half inch onto the front cover, or covers crooked from top to bottom?

BTW, the two slabs I posted are long gone.  

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27 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Well, the numerical grade is the structural one, and is for the most part judged independently of not only page quality, but production values.  How about those 9.8 grades that come with bindery tears at the top spine corner, staples a half inch onto the front cover, or covers crooked from top to bottom?

BTW, the two slabs I posted are long gone.  

I do see your point. And there is a positive side to this---there are potentially some graded books out there which may have been downgraded due to the previous paper quality standards...   

Edited by The Lions Den
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11 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Well, speaking as a "page quality" guy, page quality itself doesn't usually affect the grade substantially until it dips into the "cream to off-white" area. As I recall, the highest threshold for Cream to Off-White pages used to be a 9.4 (I really hope that hasn't changed) and the highest threshold for Off-White pages used to be 9.6. I prefer White pages myself, but I will settle for Off-White to White. And for me, yes, I will pay more for White pages. 

On the lower end, tan pages or worse can reduce the grade significantly, especially when you get into the "brittle" categories...:fear:

 

10 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I do see your point. And there is a positive side to this---there are potentially some graded books out there which may have been downgraded due to the previous paper quality standards...   

I don't think that the page quality standards that you're talking about ever existed. Even in CGC's early days, I saw many 9.6s and 9.8s with cream-to-off-white pages . And then there was this example:

 

 

Edited by jimbo_7071
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1 hour ago, jimbo_7071 said:

 

I don't think that the page quality standards that you're talking about ever existed. Even in CGC's early days, I saw many 9.6s and 9.8s with cream-to-off-white pages . And then there was this example:

 

 

Did you actually read the thread?  Steve Borock has a post in it explicitly saying the label was an error and that he'd appreciate it if the current owner would send it back in for re-grading.

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1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

Did you actually read the thread?  Steve Borock has a post in it explicitly saying the label was an error and that he'd appreciate it if the current owner would send it back in for re-grading.

That strikes me as a CYA answer. Nevertheless, even if that's true, there have been many 9.6s 9.8s with cream-to-off-white pages from day 1. I have also seen plenty of 9.6 Harvey File Copies with light-tan-to-off-white pages. I don't know whether I've seen a 9.8 with tan pages aside from the X-Men 214. So at best, it may be that light-tan-to-off-white isn't permitted in 9.8. I'll have to keep digging to see whether that's actually the case. Harvey File Copies and Savannah copies will probably be a good place to look.

Unless pages are tan or brittle, CGC does not factor page quality into the grade, period. They should, which is probably why the rumor that they do keeps popping up.

Edited by jimbo_7071
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