August HA Auction
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I am in the who cares camp. Live your life, don't worry about what people think about what you  buy or put on your wall. Degrees of being perceived as collecting something dumb or juvenile is not something worth worrying about. Don't live their life, live yours!

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4 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Let's say that's true.

Who the bleep cares?   Are we so insecure?  

1.  Not the point.

2.  I still like it, but, I'm past the point where I feel like I need to own it.  Much like I still like a lot of the TV shows and movies that I liked as a kid/teen/younger adult, but, have no desire to re-watch them (and, in some cases, would probably feel skeevy watching them at this age). :eek: 

3.  Is it more or less insecure than trying to create a false equivalence to comics and co-opting everything into a big bag of "stupid" kid stuff when this isn't even kid stuff? (shrug)  

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My dad can beat up your dad!

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3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Gene

 

I think Dumb and Dumber is pretty awesome actually lol

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/cMtbwnh5P4KJnytRA

 

I have nothing against Dumb and Dumber; I could have substituted any Adam Sandler movie into the analogy and it would still have worked. 

The fact is, though, that most people view many/most '70s/'80s era fantasy paintings in much the same manner as they do Showgirls.  I would argue that they would view comic art like (often dumb) comic book movie blockbusters, but, at worst, if they look down upon them like Adam Sandler or Jim Carrey movies, it's a whole other bag (minus the baggage) of Showgirls. 2c 

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10 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 

 

You guys are not living in the real world if you think people perceive this stuff to be equivalent.  They may not be into it, they may think it's juvenile, they may think it's stupid, but, they certainly don't think of them as being juvenile or stupid in the same way, not even close.  People may think that Dumb and Dumber are Showgirls are both juvenile, stupid movies, but, they certainly don't think of them as being juvenile or stupid in the same way.  

Please, others, feel free to chime in and tell these guys what everybody else knows to be true. 

Slippery territory....

As a sociology experiment I showed my wife the Boris and the Red Sonja pieces.  She has zero interest in comics and no awareness of context whatsoever.  She judged both "lurid" (sorry she is not a prudish but that is what she said) but said that the Boris would be more apparent on a wall and she would be more embarassed by it.  Again, sorry, totally ubiased social experiment.

If I may add my own comic art fan, I think that sex drives a lot of art - be it commercial or fine, and that is absolutely fine because sex is a part of everybody's life.  It is hard to say when sex-driven images become bad taste or - dare I say - pornographic. This is a highly subjective matter.  For me it is a mix of the level of nudity shown and the context.  A semi nude warrior woman in control of the action is less pornographic than a more dressed woman subject to an act of violence.  Just my personal position....

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

Slippery territory....

As a sociology experiment I showed my wife the Boris and the Red Sonja pieces.  She has zero interest in comics and no awareness of context whatsoever.  She judged both "lurid" (sorry she is not a prudish but that is what she said) but said that the Boris would be more apparent on a wall and she would be more embarassed by it.  Again, sorry, totally ubiased social experiment.

If I may add my own comic art fan, I think that sex drives a lot of art - be it commercial or fine, and that is absolutely fine because sex is a part of everybody's life.  It is hard to say when sex-driven images become bad taste or - dare I say - pornographic. This is a highly subjective matter.  For me it is a mix of the level of nudity shown and the context.  A semi nude warrior woman in control of the action is less pornographic than a more dressed woman subject to an act of violence.  Just my personal position....

That would probably be the position of most people, especially women.  I'm not denying that the Red Sonja isn't going to have some of the same stigma as the Boris, albeit to a lesser degree.  I think people get that it was done for a comic book and, in black and white comic book-style, it isn't going to have nearly the same impact as the Boris in full-blown realistic color (also the subject matter is a lot more tame).

Now show her a Kirby Cap page and the Boris painting.  She may or may not think both are stupid, but, there's only one of them she's likely to allow anywhere within a hundred meters of your home. lol 

Edited by delekkerste

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Anyway, it's all good. Michael and Dan, you two will always be my favorite two dirty old men on the Boards. :foryou:

th.jpeg-1.jpg.69f0a35851323f6a7c6f40571e8c910c.jpg

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19 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

That would probably be the position of most people, especially women.  I'm not denying that the Red Sonja isn't going to have some of the same stigma as the Boris, albeit to a lesser degree.  I think people get that it was done for a comic book and, in black and white comic book-style, it isn't going to have nearly the same impact as the Boris in full-blown realistic color (also the subject matter is a lot more tame).

Now show her a Kirby Cap page and the Boris painting.  She may or may not think both are stupid, but, there's only one of them she's likely to allow anywhere within a hundred meters of your home. lol 

Well I have never got too many complaints about the art I have hanging on my study.  But admittedly she has often remarked about the "absurd female body shapes" , and that remark has been made across various comic book artists and eras.

Looking back at my previous post, I would not want this to be misinterpreted that I judge the Boris piece "pornographic" - far from it!  I just wanted to express that the level of nudity alone is not necessarily an indicator of bad taste.  And I really have an open mind towards all kinds of arts.  It is just that there is a line and that line is very very subjective.

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54 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

People may think that Dumb and Dumber are Showgirls are both juvenile, stupid movies, but, they certainly don't think of them as being juvenile or stupid in the same way.  

Yes they do. L O L.

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39 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

Slippery territory....

As a sociology experiment I showed my wife the Boris and the Red Sonja pieces.  She has zero interest in comics and no awareness of context whatsoever.  She judged both "lurid" (sorry she is not a prudish but that is what she said) but said that the Boris would be more apparent on a wall and she would be more embarassed by it.  Again, sorry, totally ubiased social experiment.

If I may add my own comic art fan, I think that sex drives a lot of art - be it commercial or fine, and that is absolutely fine because sex is a part of everybody's life.  It is hard to say when sex-driven images become bad taste or - dare I say - pornographic. This is a highly subjective matter.  For me it is a mix of the level of nudity shown and the context.  A semi nude warrior woman in control of the action is less pornographic than a more dressed woman subject to an act of violence.  Just my personal position....

It's all exploitation, the actual definition, of the viewer's own basest desires to separate them of their money for something they otherwise wouldn't buy (bad film, bad novel, overpriced lifestyle products -clothes, stereos, cars, etc).

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36 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

allow

Wrong woman. L O L.

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Posted (edited)

 

26 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Anyway, it's all good. Michael and Dan, you two will always be my favorite two dirty old men on the Boards. :foryou:

 

Of course I'm a dirty old man, show me a clean one lol

Love ya Gene ;)

Edited by Bronty

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1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

I have nothing against Dumb and Dumber; I could have substituted any Adam Sandler movie into the analogy and it would still have worked. 

The fact is, though, that most people view many/most '70s/'80s era fantasy paintings in much the same manner as they do Showgirls.  I would argue that they would view comic art like (often dumb) comic book movie blockbusters, but, at worst, if they look down upon them like Adam Sandler or Jim Carrey movies, it's a whole other bag (minus the baggage) of Showgirls. 2c 

maxresdefault.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Bronty said:

maxresdefault.jpg

So many white people. Baggage.

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pretty sure the girls in the green bikini and black bikini are ladies of color?

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One thing I can say. The idea of “the male gaze” has existed since there were men and women, and it will continue into the future. Even as societal norms may shift.

We all bring our own baggage to the art, when we view it. Good, bad and indifferent. And we don’t get to control the thoughts of others when they see these pieces either.

So we each connect to whatever we connect to. And we can either worry about the opinions of others (and we ALL do), but to what degree we let it interfere in our enjoyment is up to that personal baggage, and our personalities.

I’ve sold work because over time I “outgrew” it. And by outgrowing I don’t mean just by some sense of artistic “sophistication” but even as base as realizing that the optics of having certain pieces in a room painted a mental picture that any single piece did not. And I didn’t care for the overall effect it had on me, and my feeling of myself.

I don’t see this as an either or conversation. It’s a gradient, and some comparisons are nothing more than a matter of degrees. From inside the fandom, it’s crucial differences of justification. From outside, it’s often all just arrested development.

But as often as not, having art, ANY art is interesting to non-Fannish adults as well. It’s so novel, that it sparks a surprising curiosity. You’ll easily have as many dismissive outsiders, as you have interested parties, and totally disinterested as well.

But hey, I’ve found myself surprisingly satisfied with art I have, including the work that freaks some people out. I’m weird. The art doesn’t make me so. It’s a reflection of who I am. And I’m perfectly happy with that facet of myself, if nothing else.

 

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Posted (edited)

[discussion is past its due date].

 

Edited by Bronty

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Posted (edited)

Does anyone else feel the Dark Knight page is going too expensive? 

Edited by dichotomy

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My reaction on seeing that Boris Gor painting was a bit different---my first thought was to think of which Boris Gor painting of his I'd like to own!  I read a bunch of books of that crazy series in my teens and early 20s (and would often skip over whole sections that were too tediously into John Norman's theories and social commentary) but generally enjoyed the covers, including the Boris ones (even the chessier ones) even if some were a bit more obvious than others. 

Of the Boris ones (I think he only did 8 of the reprints)  Priest Kings of Gor had a cool alien.  Raiders of Gor had one of the few illustrations of the protagonist clearly from the front (a bit better than Outlaw of Gore which also had a slave girl and salve captor on it).  But I wouldn't buy say Captives of Gor unless I was looking for that type of good girl (bad girl?) art (which I'[m not).

By the way, owning Boris Gor is risky based on HA archives.  Nomads sold for $11.3k in 2007 then only $9.5k in 2015.  Outlasw sold for $10k in 2009 then only $7.5k in 2016.

 

Oh, and I'm 95% in Gene's camp on the preceding discussion (I would say 100% but I'm sure there's SOMETHING I didn't quite agree with :))

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