Forbes article 2 2

[exitmusicblue]

P.S. I wish my RAs would put in this much work, graphs and all, during a holiday week.  

[Rick2you2]

6 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

I can just about guarantee that in 50 years, three things will have *at least* retained their value:

A first edition copy of The Great Gatsby.

Letters written by Napoleon (with provenance).

AF15.

I'll be 85 years old then, so hopefully I'll be around to bump this thread and bellow heartily.

Actually, I don’t think The Great Gatsby will keep pace in 50 years. By then, books won’t be too popular, as compared to ebooks, and neither will collectible books, either. AF 15 will be one of those things where the market price is high, but they just don’t find ready buyers. Napoleon is a different story. 

[exitmusicblue]

4 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Actually, I don’t think The Great Gatsby will keep pace in 50 years. By then, books won’t be too popular, as compared to ebooks, and neither will collectible books, either. AF 15 will be one of those things where the market price is high, but they just don’t find ready buyers. Napoleon is a different story. 

E-book sales declining by the year.  Numbers of independent bookstores on the rise.

This is a good read re: why.  https://observer.com/2018/11/ebook-sales-decline-independent-bookstores/

[delekkerste]

1 hour ago, exitmusicblue said:

E-book sales declining by the year.  Numbers of independent bookstores on the rise.

This is a good read re: why.  https://observer.com/2018/11/ebook-sales-decline-independent-bookstores/

There was probably a year or two where buggy whip sales rebounded and car sales took a dip too.  I've seen several stories like this over the past few years, and I think this "middle ground" that has been reached is just older customers adjusting and finding a balance.  Fast forward a decade or two or three, though, when it's the younger generations dominating market for book sales, and I think we'll look back and see that these hiccups along the way for e-book sales were just that - hiccups.  And I say this as someone who is often skeptical of unfettered belief in technology and who thinks there is a place in the world for brick & mortar retail. 

All it will take is the next recession to wipe out all of these alleged new independent bookstores being opened.  I say alleged because I sure haven't seen many (any?), whereas I have seen a ton of them close up shop over the past 10-15 years. And I highly doubt that these stores are thriving in the way the author suggests. NYC's iconic The Strand bookstore, which probably gets as much foot traffic as any independent bookstore in America, has been limping along for years according to its owners (definitely not "thriving").  

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

Actually, I don’t think The Great Gatsby will keep pace in 50 years. By then, books won’t be too popular, as compared to ebooks, and neither will collectible books, either. AF 15 will be one of those things where the market price is high, but they just don’t find ready buyers. Napoleon is a different story. 

I don't know if TGG will keep pace in 50 years, but, if I were a bookmaker, it certainly wouldn't be a sure thing or anything even close to it.  I look at collectible book prices and think that, by and large, they look SO FREAKING CHEAP compared to comic books.  But, I think the only way the valuation gap is going to close is if comic prices come down more than book prices, because there doesn't seem to be any real reason or catalyst for book values to otherwise rise and close the gap.  

[vodou]

9 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

...because there doesn't seem to be any real reason or catalyst for book values to otherwise rise and close the gap

CGC needs to enter the space

[exitmusicblue]

24 minutes ago, vodou said:

CGC needs to enter the space

Bwahahahaha...

Diggin' the diversity of opinions in this and the General thread.  Literally all over the map.

Another thing I've noticed is that comics are oft-considered an on-ramp for reading in general.  So many times I've seen parents and grandparents at comic shops with this in mind. 

Lest there be confusion, I should also clarify.  Praising comics' retention of value is in no way endorsement as investment.  Some make that jump without prompting, and it's galling.  Collect for enjoyment.

Edited July 6, 2019 by exitmusicblue

[batman_fan]

I deal with younger people in a couple of capacities.  My observation has been pretty consistent.  When they are young and single, definitely renting the "cool" apartment that is easy walking distance to downtown restaurants and bars.  Many dump their car and opt for uber and a bike.  Once they start to pair up with someone, they still rent but many get at least a car.  Once they get married, they migrate to purchasing a home.  If they can't afford a house they opt for a townhouse or condo.  If they cant afford to live in the expensive area (Boulder, CO), they move to one of the close but cheaper towns.  I don't know a single couple that has kids that rents.  Now all the people I know are professionals so marketing for a decent company, software engineer, electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, etc.

Edited July 6, 2019 by batman_fan

[exitmusicblue]

Since this has personally become a de facto stream-of-thought thread, more food for thought.

Why are there always sequels, remakes, and the like for top entertainment IP?  Because it's much easier to evolve something that already has a significant global following, than start from scratch.  Nostalgia can be rejuvenated with each successive generation if done right.

It's widely known that, e.g., Spidey originated in comics.  My 7-year-old nephew knows this, and no one in his nuclear family collects (yet). In each new technological medium in which Spidey appears, this history is often reinforced. 

Will it always be reinforced?  Is there value in anchoring a long-enduring cultural phenomenon to history?  I believe there is -- again, added legitimization. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by exitmusicblue

[romitaman]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:45 PM, The Voord said:

Did you go by the name of 'Trigger-Man' back then, Mike?

LOL....Well i only flipped burgers....shaved roast beef....and broiled chicken there at ROY ROGERS RESTAURANT.... ($3.35 an hour) LOL

i'm proud to say after 1 year working there i left and took a job as a PETROLEUM TRANSFER ENGINEER!!!!

 

in case you dont know what that means.......

I got a job pumping gas for Shell Gas station!  LOL...... (4 bucks an hour in 1983!!)

 

And i'm embarrassed (yet humorously willing) to share here that on my VERY FIRST DAY ON THE JOB..as a proud 18 year old.......a guy came into the shell station

(Yes we had FULL SERVICE CAR CARE BACK THEN)

He came in with a weird foreign car and he needed water in his radiator and a quart of oil...

and with both caps off.........i poured a quart of oil in his RADIATOR by mistake!!! LOL

thankfully my co worker came to the rescue as by simply pouring water into the radiator....(with oil being lighter than water..) the oil flowed out first and nothing bad happened to the radiator... 

(i felt terrible back then obviously.......But its funny to rehash now)

Mike

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by romitaman

[romitaman]

14 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

I can just about guarantee that in 50 years, three things will have *at least* retained their value:

A first edition copy of The Great Gatsby.

Letters written by Napoleon (with provenance).

AF15.

I'll be 85 years old then, so hopefully I'll be around to bump this thread and bellow heartily.

As a child and high schooler..."History" class  was just the worst subject and the most boring to me....... I was actually more like the SOUTH PARK guys....literally 15 years "BEFORE THEM!!!!"  LOL

...as in.......I created dozens Comic strips on note book paper in school with SPIDER-MIKE or THE INCREDIBLE "BURK"  (ME) battling someone from school..... either the mean wrestling coach (Mr. JACK Wagar)..who treated everyone TERRIBLE who wouldn't join the wrestling team....... (I called him JOCK STRAP JACK in my comic strips.....LOL.)   or the 1 kid who never washed his hair.....(Jim Krenovich) or the hairiest guy in school (Vic Lubowicki)....Yes I still remember all their names...LOL

I actually got suspended  (in school suspension at least ) in 10th grade because so many kids were laughing reading all of my comic strips i created, but the Spanish teacher (Miss Kreps) AKA "Seniorita SPITS" because she always spit saliva every time she talked......LOL......) anyway.....She took a few of my strips i was passing around to buddies and i guess i had a few cuss words in my dialogue on the  strips...like SH#T... and DAMN and ....."A double S" (never ever did i write the real bad 4 letter words) so i ended up getting suspended for having what was actual termed as...."HAVING OBSCENE MATERIAL IN CLASS"...LOL

However... back to the story now....... sorry for getting side tracked.....

 

now I was extremely bored with "history class" in high school........ But as an adult i'm HUGE into history and i can watch 5 hours of the HISTORY channel on TV  any night practically and always be entertained!!

With that being said......after reading the previous post....I actually have a sweet document signed by Napoleon in 1808!   

(i don't know much about his signature) but the piece i have was signed by over a dozen people in his government and his signature is a just a big huge "N" with what looks like a loose "B" connected with it abstractly...LOL

I also have a great legal long letter by Abraham Lincoln signed 3 times by him, from when he was a lawyer well before he was president, as his client was suing a guy because his logs flowing down river were hitting his property and destroying part of the land....LOL

Also have a signed George Washington document with a piece of his military uniform and a lock of his hair (all framed together)....who knows if it's all truly real... but they were all cool buys about 10 years ago in auction.

also have a cool President James Madison Document and a sweet signed Thomas Edison signed photo.

Also have a very cool signed CHARLES DICKENS letter from 1843. (I collect Christmas themed art...) His vocabulary in writing back then was quite extraordinary.

I have this Dickens original signed letter framed with 4 cheap  "A CHRISTMAS CAROL" book covers i bought on EBAY and ripped the covers off so they could be framed around the letter, and this is proudly displayed along all of my comic art in my family room.

Mike

(Here are a few cool pics of some of art up in my family room....pics from my 4th of July party last week and Christmas Party last year..  )

the 5th pic below...The cover recreations are actual very large paintings on canvas.

the 6th pic below... (with all of the Christmas card paintings)...the top row..2nd from left is John Romita's first ever published piece of art....A 1949  Santa Claus painting When Romita was only 19 years old!

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by romitaman

[ESeffinga]

I’m starting to think you like Spider-Man...

[Rick2you2]

Nice fire extinguisher, too. 😁

 

[vodou]

11 hours ago, batman_fan said:

Now all the people I know are professionals so marketing for a decent company, software engineer, electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, etc.

Unless we're expecting 100% of 300m worldwide to buy US* "anything" five and six figures (that's SFH, cars, CGC comics, comic art, etc etc etc!) then there's going to be a problem:

*=ignoring their own domestic product in favor of ours.

 

That's income. Then their net worth(wealth), savings that can be deployed or re-allocated (which is not the same!):

Alas...it appears to be the same 300m we'll be depending upon to unload anything five and six figures fmv (actually +++ to account for reasonable roi ahead of inflation!) globally:

Last I checked, at least half the world strongly dislikes or hates American culture...sure hope that turns around and all those (millionaire?!) migrants start collecting Cockrum X-Men art

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Unless we're expecting 100% of 300m worldwide to buy US* "anything" five and six figures (that's SFH, cars, CGC comics, comic art, etc etc etc!) then there's going to be a problem:

*=ignoring their own domestic product in favor of ours.

 

That's income. Then their net worth(wealth), savings that can be deployed or re-allocated (which is not the same!):

Alas...it appears to be the same 300m we'll be depending upon to unload anything five and six figures fmv (actually +++ to account for reasonable roi ahead of inflation!) globally:

Last I checked, at least half the world strongly dislikes or hates American culture...sure hope that turns around and all those (millionaire?!) migrants start collecting Cockrum X-Men art

Oh how times change...

[John E.]

I have been following this thread and take a lot of it with a healthy dose of skepticism, but I'm generally convinced that this hobby is seeing it's heyday right now but will eventually come to an end. I don't kid myself that my kids, born in the mid-2010s, will be interested in my hobbies and in my collections. They will find something else, at best (they may grow up to not be collectors). As someone has mentioned here prior, the same thing has happened to antiques and china. Baby Boomers are having a hard time passing on these things to their children, and these things are ending up at antique shops, estate sales, and yard sales, essentially flooding the market. Why should our hobbies, be it comics or comic art, be any different? I go to a lot of comic cons and toy and collectible shows and observe what others buy--from vintage Transformers, G.I. Joes (which I like), to anime statues, and I think, "Who's gonna buy that back in 50 years?" Again, why should comic art be any different? Well, I admit that the one-of-a-kind nature of it is what makes it a appealing but it's the high prices that make it a barrier. 

Eh, I'm probably not bringing anything new to the table here, but I wanted to share this NYT Op-ed piece about the death of stamp collecting. There are many places in this article where you can substitute stamps with comic art collecting. Article: "Stamped Out"

[vodou]

30 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

As someone has mentioned here prior, the same thing has happened to antiques and china. Baby Boomers are having a hard time passing on these things to their children, and these things are ending up at antique shops, estate sales, and yard sales, essentially flooding the market.

You can follow the slow-motion crash of many once-popular collectible categories daily on LiveAuctioneers.com.

Most items are not fakes, they're just near worthless to today's spenders.

All the Jack Kirby originals are fakes however (except when listed by auctioneers we're all already following here!)

[batman_fan]

31 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I have been following this thread and take a lot of it with a healthy dose of skepticism, but I'm generally convinced that this hobby is seeing it's heyday right now but will eventually come to an end. I don't kid myself that my kids, born in the mid-2010s, will be interested in my hobbies and in my collections. They will find something else, at best (they may grow up to not be collectors). As someone has mentioned here prior, the same thing has happened to antiques and china. Baby Boomers are having a hard time passing on these things to their children, and these things are ending up at antique shops, estate sales, and yard sales, essentially flooding the market. Why should our hobbies, be it comics or comic art, be any different? I go to a lot of comic cons and toy and collectible shows and observe what others buy--from vintage Transformers, G.I. Joes (which I like), to anime statues, and I think, "Who's gonna buy that back in 50 years?" Again, why should comic art be any different? Well, I admit that the one-of-a-kind nature of it is what makes it a appealing but it's the high prices that make it a barrier. 

Eh, I'm probably not bringing anything new to the table here, but I wanted to share this NYT Op-ed piece about the death of stamp collecting. There are many places in this article where you can substitute stamps with comic art collecting. Article: "Stamped Out"

Thanks for posting the article, very interesting (and sad).  I have often thought about digging out my old stamp collection to see what it is worth, guess I won't.  I have posted it before but the tale of my son is he started going to comicbook shows before he could walk.  He has probably attended dozens of shows and gone to countless comic book stores across the US and Canada.  We use to flip through my original artwork book where he would pick his favorites. When he was young I would buy him the kid friendly comics that he would flip through.  He is 16 now.  He will still go to comic shows and stores with me but they are usually full of "are you ready to go yet?" and "I am going to wait outside".  If he looks it is mainly for video gaming stuff or Star Wars light sabres.  He has zero interest in any of my comic book stuff. 

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I have been following this thread and take a lot of it with a healthy dose of skepticism, but I'm generally convinced that this hobby is seeing it's heyday right now but will eventually come to an end. I don't kid myself that my kids, born in the mid-2010s, will be interested in my hobbies and in my collections. They will find something else, at best (they may grow up to not be collectors). As someone has mentioned here prior, the same thing has happened to antiques and china. Baby Boomers are having a hard time passing on these things to their children, and these things are ending up at antique shops, estate sales, and yard sales, essentially flooding the market. Why should our hobbies, be it comics or comic art, be any different? I go to a lot of comic cons and toy and collectible shows and observe what others buy--from vintage Transformers, G.I. Joes (which I like), to anime statues, and I think, "Who's gonna buy that back in 50 years?" Again, why should comic art be any different? Well, I admit that the one-of-a-kind nature of it is what makes it a appealing but it's the high prices that make it a barrier. 

Eh, I'm probably not bringing anything new to the table here, but I wanted to share this NYT Op-ed piece about the death of stamp collecting. There are many places in this article where you can substitute stamps with comic art collecting. Article: "Stamped Out"

Thanks! What a wonderfully depressing read on a bleak overcast Sunday Morning.

However, I do believe that what happened to stamps is a mirror to what will  happen to our beloved hobby in the coming decades. Period. 

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

Thanks for posting the article, very interesting (and sad).  I have often thought about digging out my old stamp collection to see what it is worth, guess I won't.  I have posted it before but the tale of my son is he started going to comicbook shows before he could walk.  He has probably attended dozens of shows and gone to countless comic book stores across the US and Canada.  We use to flip through my original artwork book where he would pick his favorites. When he was young I would buy him the kid friendly comics that he would flip through.  He is 16 now.  He will still go to comic shows and stores with me but they are usually full of "are you ready to go yet?" and "I am going to wait outside".  If he looks it is mainly for video gaming stuff or Star Wars light sabres.  He has zero interest in any of my comic book stuff. 

and there it is.

[Rick2you2]

Don’t forget, you can’t take it with you. Instead of thinking about the artwork’s “value”, enjoy it as a reflection of your past, maybe your present, and a source of future enjoyment. The kids will make their own memories. These are yours.