How good of a deal is too good of a deal? 1 1

[Cruzin' Thru Comics]

Thinking about this situation as well. What if instead of a new mutants 87 it had been a high grade house of secrets 92 worth a few thousand? I doubt I would have let the customer have it for $1. It’s a complicated issue. 

[Beige]

I think it depends on circumstances.

The last 'big' deal I made (see garage thread) was $700. That turned into $15,000 profit (currently) after I sold about 90% (I have about 15 slabs and 100 raw books left plus 5 more slabs at CGC)

The guy took my first offer after I saw literally 1 box of contents out of 20 (I checked the others did have comics!)

Reason - house was sold, and he was going back to UK,and didn't want to fork out $1500 shipping for 20 boxes halfway around the world. He changed his mind about keeping them at the last minute.

He didn't quibble or counter - he just wanted them gone as he was due to move out in 48hrs time. He knew they were worth more - but didn't want the hassle of shipping or selling. Most expensive book was Hawkman #4.

Would I have paid more - sure, but after going through all the boxes.

I saw each box had comics in, saw a couple of keys, threw out a price - immediate acceptance.

It was a win/win.

 

2 yrs ago - runaway tenant - Estate Agent clearance sale - I was the only person to make an offer - $200. I eventually sold the whole lot for $7676 profit.  I'm not going to pay more when I don't have to.

Alternatively, I have thrown a couple of hundred $$ under the door of a couple who wouldn't take any money for their sons books (again story is in garage sale thread).*

 

It's all swings and roundabouts - sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you pay 60% FMV.

Like someone said - the original seller isn't the one sorting, scanning, listing, packing and  posting the comics, that's ME and that all takes time and $$.

If you get lucky - grab it - I have done plenty of $200 purchases to make $300 profit.

When you get the chance to do very well - don't cherry pick or haggle, just buy.

The harder you work, the luckier you get - I am in an absolute doldrum currently - no decent collections of comics have come up for months - I'm turning over Warhammer, Playboys, Walking Dead TPBs etc just to pretty much use my pre-paid store listings. I know my hard work will pay off, and hopefully the next decent score is only a couple of months away.

Hopefully!

 

*Disclaimer - in neither of the above purchases were little old ladies conned, puppies kicked, or terrorists arrested.*

 

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, Beige said:

I think it depends on circumstances.

The last 'big' deal I made (see garage thread) was $700. That turned into $15,000 profit (currently) after I sold about 90% (I have about 15 slabs and 100 raw books left plus 5 more slabs at CGC)

The guy took my first offer after I saw literally 1 box of contents out of 20 (I checked the others did have comics!)

Reason - house was sold, and he was going back to UK,and didn't want to fork out $1500 shipping for 20 boxes halfway around the world. He changed his mind about keeping them at the last minute.

He didn't quibble or counter - he just wanted them gone as he was due to move out in 48hrs time. He knew they were worth more - but didn't want the hassle of shipping or selling. Most expensive book was Hawkman #4.

Would I have paid more - sure, but after going through all the boxes.

I saw each box had comics in, saw a couple of keys, threw out a price - immediate acceptance.

It was a win/win.

 

2 yrs ago - runaway tenant - Estate Agent clearance sale - I was the only person to make an offer - $200. I eventually sold the whole lot for $7676 profit.  I'm not going to pay more when I don't have to.

Alternatively, I have thrown a couple of hundred $$ under the door of a couple who wouldn't take any money for their sons books (again story is in garage sale thread).*

 

It's all swings and roundabouts - sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you pay 60% FMV.

Like someone said - the original seller isn't the one sorting, scanning, listing, packing and  posting the comics, that's ME and that all takes time and $$.

If you get lucky - grab it - I have done plenty of $200 purchases to make $300 profit.

When you get the chance to do very well - don't cherry pick or haggle, just buy.

The harder you work, the luckier you get - I am in an absolute doldrum currently - no decent collections of comics have come up for months - I'm turning over Warhammer, Playboys, Walking Dead TPBs etc just to pretty much use my pre-paid store listings. I know my hard work will pay off, and hopefully the next decent score is only a couple of months away.

Hopefully!

 

*Disclaimer - in neither of the above purchases were little old ladies conned, puppies kicked, or terrorists arrested.*

 

Right.

Everyone makes the scenario out to be conning a little old lady out of an Action #1 when in reality it's mostly the scenario's you described above. And usually the people complaining about ethics are amateur comic buyer/sellers who do this to support their hobby, NOT to earn a living. 

Real Comic Book Dealers, when they buy a book or a collection - aren't just paying $50 for a book they'll make x amount of money on - they're paying for a book that'll help cover the cost of Rent, Insurance, (Payroll, if they have it), their TIME, Federal TAXES, State taxes, Licenses, show fees (Table, travel, hotel, etc.), the cost of posting fees, Paypal fees, the collections they bought that haven't sold, the SAME book that 3 people in the last year brought in that thought they should get full price, the time INBETWEEN good deals when very little is coming in, etc. ...

Go into almost any comic book shop that has back issues and I guarantee you'll find plenty of comics that have sat there for years... the dealer paid money for those books... is the customer going to come in and reimburse you? Of course not. But most will chalk that up to the dealer "should've known better."

How is this any different?

The truth is... this question is a TRUE example of virtue signaling. People here want to express their outrage that a little old lady would get taken advantage of and how dealers are so greedy and how THEY are so honorable and blah, blah, blah... REALLY, most every reputable dealer here that had a little old lady bring in an Action Comics #1, would do the RIGHT thing based upon whatever other factors came into play in the scenario. 

Which is the reason they're reputable dealers and they're still around here.

It's a loaded question, so people can preach.

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Chuck Gower

[Prince Namor]

CGC boards:

"If a dealer buys a Hulk #181 for $5 from someone it's unethical!"

BUT...

"I found a Hulk #181 for $5... tough luck for the dealer!"

Suddenly 'ethics' aren't in the discussion.

Pure hypocrisy. 

[Jeffro.]

9 hours ago, october said:

I played other Black Isle stuff like Baldur's and Icewind Dale, but not the original Fallouts. Someday I will have to go back and rectify that. 

 

That's a crime. Go get Fallout and play it and then get Fallout 2 and play it. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Jeffro™

[miraclemet]

The Jiffylube guy charges $75 for an oil change when he could just reach each customer how to do it himself for $20.

unethical.

no?

 

[miraclemet]

also buyers are always taking a risk regarding restoration, missing pages, etc. If someone buys a seemingly great collection but it turns out restored, the dealer doesnt go running back to grandma to try to get his money back...

point being there has to be the potential for reward if the dealer is taking on the risk.

[Ken Aldred]

10 hours ago, kav said:

But people are not automatons-they are mammals that can get explosively angered by events.  I personally could not sleep at night knowing I may have created a deadly enemy.  Also if you make exceptions for little old ladies, what if the person is autistic?  What if they are distracted because their entire family was killed in a car crash?  How could you determine the state of mind of anyone you bought from?  

Vulnerability gets exploited. 

[miraclemet]

We live in an information age, and those "little old ladies" are staring to be tech savy enough to do the research to see what something might be worth (or at least learn about when she has). My 70yo mom uses ebay. My 72yo dad actually surfs facebook groups to buy farm equipment and tools to resell for a profit. Same thing, different area....

 

[Artboy99]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Right.

Everyone makes the scenario out to be conning a little old lady out of an Action #1 when in reality it's mostly the scenario's you described above. And usually the people complaining about ethics are amateur comic buyer/sellers who do this to support their hobby, NOT to earn a living. 

Real Comic Book Dealers, when they buy a book or a collection - aren't just paying $50 for a book they'll make x amount of money on - they're paying for a book that'll help cover the cost of Rent, Insurance, (Payroll, if they have it), their TIME, Federal TAXES, State taxes, Licenses, show fees (Table, travel, hotel, etc.), the cost of posting fees, Paypal fees, the collections they bought that haven't sold, the SAME book that 3 people in the last year brought in that thought they should get full price, the time INBETWEEN good deals when very little is coming in, etc. ...

Go into almost any comic book shop that has back issues and I guarantee you'll find plenty of comics that have sat there for years... the dealer paid money for those books... is the customer going to come in and reimburse you? Of course not. But most will chalk that up to the dealer "should've known better."

How is this any different?

The truth is... this question is a TRUE example of virtue signaling. People here want to express their outrage that a little old lady would get taken advantage of and how dealers are so greedy and how THEY are so honorable and blah, blah, blah... REALLY, most every reputable dealer here that had a little old lady bring in an Action Comics #1, would do the RIGHT thing based upon whatever other factors came into play in the scenario. 

Which is the reason they're reputable dealers and they're still around here.

It's a loaded question, so people can preach.

 

if the ridiculous scenario of the little old lady with the Action #1 actually happened to me I would tell her the book is worth a lot and offer to sell it for her on consignment. Negotiate a percentage of the sale for my time.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

15 hours ago, Westy Steve said:

I saw the thread about people making a lot of money on comic book flips.  Here's a question:

Situation #1.  Someone offers you a comic book collection for $50.  You buy it, and after you total it up, you're pleasantly surprised with the value of some of the items not immediately known to you, and then with some labor on your part, end up selling it all for $400.  Is that unethical?

Situation #2.  Someone offers you a comic book collection.  They say, "make me an offer".  You see it's worth $400 retail.  You offer them $50 and they take the offer.  Is that more unethical?

How big of a profit is unethical?  You should get compensated for your time and effort to sell something, but how much is too much in Situation #1 and Situation #2?

What do you think?

Literally neither situation is "unethical". Buyer and seller agree upon a price. That is just making a purchase/sale.

It's diligence.

[Bookery]

12 hours ago, LordRahl said:

No, it isn't. $50 to $500,000 isn't unethical either. The seller should take the time to educate themselves. Educating other people is not my job. Don't offer something for $50 if you don't know what it's worth. It would literally take about an hour of your time to figure out that what you're offering for $50 is worth much more than that. If you are too lazy to be arsed out of an hour of your time to do some research... that is your problem. I don't understand the mentality of excusing other people's lack of personal responsibility in our culture lately. Everyone seems to think that they are owed something. That is not the case in my world.

But it's often much more complicated than that.  First off... in many of the collections I buy, there is no way the seller could educated themselves about their items in an hour.  In the above, you seem to be assuming they are selling a single collectible book.  If I buy an estate, there may be hundreds or thousands of items.  There may be lots of drek with some truly incredible gems mixed in.  It's different for me than someone just buying off of Craig's List.  When you have a storefront, and you advertise you buy collectibles, people trust that I am the expert.  Most people will just say "I've heard you make fair offers and so I've brought my deceased brother's collection to you".  If I offer $50 for $5000 worth of stuff, yes... they will accept the offer, because they believe I will be fair with them.  Which is why I would never do that, regardless of whether they've taken the time to do the research or not.  Now, that said... maybe 10% or 20% is a fair offer, because of the amount of drek or time involved.  But I let them know that.  There are plenty of times someone's expecting $200 and I pay them $1,000.  Because what happens if they become "educated" after the fact.  Then there goes that reputation of trust I mentioned above.  I get referrals from people who have sold me collections, sometimes a decade later.  You have to be in it for the long haul.

On the other hand, I agree with you above if the scenario is a flea market or convention where the seller, dealer or private, has taken the time to actually price their stuff.  If they have a $5 sticker on a $500 book, the presumption is they have taken whatever time or lack thereof they wanted to put into it, and so yes, I do not owe them an education.

As I said... it's complicated.

[october]

2 hours ago, Jeffro™ said:

That's a crime. Go get Fallout and play it and then get Fallout 2 and play it. 

I will have a look on steam and GOG. Hopefully one of the two has them.

[RockMyAmadeus]

9 hours ago, kav said:

10 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This. Experience and knowledge have value. No one is "owed" a "fair price"...even little old grandma. They're only owed honesty, not an education. "This is what I'd be willing to pay" is all that matters. 

But is saying "I'd be willing to pay $5" for Action #1 an honest statement?  Obviously a dealer would be "willing to pay" much more.

Yes, self-evidently. If I'm willing to pay $500,000 for something, it is also true that I'm willing to pay every other sum between $0 and $500,000 as well. Being willing to "pay more" doesn't alter that fact. Notice that the statement is not "This is the most I'd be willing to pay" or "I'd only be willing to pay this much." That's on purpose.

[Jeffro.]

1 hour ago, october said:

I will have a look on steam and GOG. Hopefully one of the two has them.

FO1 should be on Steam and FO2 on GOG. Actually, they might both be on GOG

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Jeffro™

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It's a loaded question, so people can preach.

This.

Virtue signalling on a grand scale. And if you call it out...God help you.

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

if the ridiculous scenario of the little old lady with the Action #1 actually happened to me I would tell her the book is worth a lot and offer to sell it for her on consignment. Negotiate a percentage of the sale for my time.

 

What if the little old lady was a career criminal....?

[october]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This.

Virtue signalling on a grand scale. And if you call it out...God help you.

Especially given that the scenario is borderline absurd. It's always framed in the most extreme terms, never anything has a chance of happening in reality. 

Someone did pay $5 at a garage sale for an AF 15 though. A friend of the buyer told the story on the forum and was pilloried. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, october said:

Especially given that the scenario is borderline absurd. It's always framed in the most extreme terms, never anything has a chance of happening in reality. 

Someone did pay $5 at a garage sale for an AF 15 though. A friend of the buyer told the story on the forum and was pilloried. 

Good for them, that they had educated themselves, knew what they were looking at, and exercised their knowledge in their favor.

Complaining about it is just another manifestation of the moral relativism that infects Western civilization like the plague. It's the very essence of judging by the appearance, rather than the substance. The "it's not FAIR!" crowd. They want to talk immoral...? THAT is immoral: deciding what someone else deserves and/or can afford, without knowing anything about them.

[the blob]

18 hours ago, kav said:

I've been stiffed by LCS offering me couple bucks for like ASM 129.  It doesnt feel good when you come back and see it on wall for big bux.  It makes you want to......RETALIATE.

Ebay has been around for 20 years. There Is no reason to be angry at a shop trying to get a windfall. Few are making any real money overall anymore. A $500 profit on an ASM 129 is wiped out by $2500 in overhead in a slow sales month. I am guessing this was pre-ebay. Otoh, did they not gave a wizard or priceguide handy?

Edited July 2, 2019 by the blob