When will the other shoe drop with CGC and the 'crack, press, and resub' game?
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Posted (edited)

"If you have something that's 100 years old, and it looks like it's 100 years old, that's one thing. But if it looks like it's brand new, that's something else," said Anthony Nex, a vintage collector in Southern California. "That's impressive. When you alter a card, you're deceiving someone to make it look like it was cared for better than it was. The rabid memorabilia market created a strong incentive for card doctors, who could see large profit margins by illicitly altering a card to boost its grade then reselling it."

Read more: Baseball card collectors suspect rampant fraud in their hobby

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2019/07/baseball-card-collectors-suspected-rampant-fraud-in-their-hobby.html?fbclid=IwAR3R488NNulZW1t6fs9jiRpo1jB8fbdwKaOrf3bOeRp1xpUCwsFLdRAXwH0

Edited by comicwiz

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Ya, I have two friends that are trying to get a T-206 set (minus Wagner and Plank) and they've collected/sold/bought a lot of graded cards.  Both are disenchanted with the whole hobby now, I know they each are getting refunds from a site that was known to alter their cards, one got over 4k back the other over 8k and they said they have more.  It's a really scary thing.

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Posted (edited)

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Edited by Buzzetta

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Soaking a card in distilled water and allowing it to air-dry to remove stains is generally permitted,”

 

:insane:

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Posted (edited)

The article doesn't really mention how the cards were altered/re-touched. Only a mention of the Stan Musial card that had a black print mark, then didn't. But they go onto to say types of cleaning are allowed on cards. Were they trimmed? Chemically cleaned? 

Edited by Phish&Comics

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2 minutes ago, Phish&Comics said:

The article doesn't really mention how the cards were altered/re-touched. Only a mention of the Stan Musial card that had a black print mark, then didn't. But they go onto to say types of cleaning is allowed on cards. Were they trimmed? Chemically cleaned? 

“but using any sort of cleaning agent, such as bleach, is a violation, even if it does not appear to materially damage the card.”

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Phish&Comics said:

The article doesn't really mention how the cards were altered/re-touched. Only a mention of the Stan Musial card that had a black print mark, then didn't. But they go onto to say types of cleaning is allowed on cards. Were they trimmed? Chemically cleaned? 

Moser says he did a straight crack, resub. The Blowout Forums show differences between the cards he originally bought (the "befores", from old listings) and the "afters" in the way of grade upgrades. What's important here is PSA graded them. Whatever these alterations were, we can assume they are of a "stealth" nature.

PSA will inevitably dust itself off from all this by doing what CGC did, which was to start allow certain reconditioning techniques which they claimed were not detectable.

Edited by comicwiz

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1 minute ago, comicwiz said:

Moser says he did a straight crack, resub. The Blowout Forums show differences between the cards he originally bought (the befores, from old listings) and the "afters" in the way of grade upgrades. What's important here is PSA graded them. Whatever these alterations were, we can assume they are of a "stealth" nature.

PSA will inevitably dust itself off from all this by doing what CGC did, which was to start allow certain reconditioning techniques which they claimed were not detectable.

Doesn’t the detection card go out the window when CGC themselves are pressing the books?

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Just now, THE_BEYONDER said:

Doesn’t the detection card go out the window when CGC themselves are pressing the books?

Not according to what we've been told here before. CGC aren't supposed to know which books they pressed.

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Posted (edited)

100% agree with this - btw: thanks for the link BUTM. I do believe this is contextually relevant even though it is another collecting category. I see an even bigger issue with what our own hobby has become compared to what's happening with baseball cards

On 7/18/2019 at 10:47 AM, tth2 said:

Just the opposite, I'd love for the Feds to come in and clean up the cesspool that our hobby has become. 

The article talks about how a "a stray black print mark" was removed from a Stan Musial card.  Go into the Silver forum and look at the Curator TOS 57 that's had the distributor overspray removed, jumping the book from a 9.2 to a 9.6.  I'd love for the FBI to come knocking on the door of whoever did that undisclosed work.

And wouldn't it be great if we had an objective third party come in and determine that pressing is indeed "fraudulent alteration"?

 

Edited by comicwiz

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Didn’t the same thing happen with coins a while back? And a familiar name, Jim Halperin (current co-chairman of Heritage) was one of the parties involved, being targeted by the government for alteration and grading manipulation, getting into serious legal troubles (including paying a million dollar fine, IIRC).

Halperin was profiled in Forbes magazine back in 2004, his illicit activities going back to a mail fraud business started when he was just 14 years old. 

Every hobby is going to have its fair share of unethical, greedy, ego-driven individuals who carve out a huge piece of the pie.

Buyer beware...

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2 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

Didn’t the same thing happen with coins a while back? And a familiar name, Jim Halperin (current co-chairman of Heritage) was one of the parties involved, being targeted by the government for alteration and grading manipulation, getting into serious legal troubles (including paying a million dollar fine, IIRC).

Halperin was profiled in Forbes magazine back in 2004, his illicit activities going back to a mail fraud business started when he was just 14 years old. 

Every hobby is going to have its fair share of unethical, greedy, ego-driven individuals who carve out a huge piece of the pie.

Buyer beware...

Whaaaatttt

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2 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

Didn’t the same thing happen with coins a while back? And a familiar name, Jim Halperin (current co-chairman of Heritage) was one of the parties involved, being targeted by the government for alteration and grading manipulation, getting into serious legal troubles (including paying a million dollar fine, IIRC).

Halperin was profiled in Forbes magazine back in 2004, his illicit activities going back to a mail fraud business started when he was just 14 years old. 

Every hobby is going to have its fair share of unethical, greedy, ego-driven individuals who carve out a huge piece of the pie.

Buyer beware...

After I read the first two paragraphs of the article, Halperin was the name that rang in my mind for exactly the reasons you stated. And of course, he brought the crack/resub game from coins to comics.

Greed is a heck of a thing.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Whaaaatttt

One of the conditions of the FTC settlement was he wasn't allowed to get involved in coin grading. So he got involved in comic grading. And here we are.

Edited by comicwiz

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If there is a profit to be made, especially in collectibles, you can bet there is somebody always looking to scam a quick buck.  

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Heritage has also been caught in the past for selling fake Hollywood memorabilia, it was a pretty big scandal some years ago.

When you have a guy like Halperin at the top, these scenarios are going to keep repeating.

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Wonder how WATA will play out lol 

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