pinupcartooncollector Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 hours ago, romitaman said: Who would have ever guessed that a Romita ASM battle page would sell for more than a Ditko ASM all out battle page!?!?!? Me! You've neglected to mention the Bill Ward contribution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 16 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said: I cannot believe how the first published Judge Dredd story is still sitting there at $26,000. There's only 2 hours left in the auction, and I think this piece should go for between $75K-$100K. But, it may not even get to $50,000! Correlation between prices before the floor auction and final bids = 0. I don't understand why people get so worked up over bids before the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 12 hours ago, delekkerste said: people need to wake up and realize that we're not in 2014 anymore. Can you imagine the ridicule someone would have gotten if they put a $288K price tag on that FF Ann. 2 splash on their dealer wall? Or $90K for the Byrne PPSS cover? Uh, weren't you one of the people ridiculing high prices back in 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 12 hours ago, delekkerste said: And another one...Cap #103 cover sells for $288K, could have been had for less at SDCC this year. But wasn't everyone here ridiculing the asking price at SDCC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, pinupcartooncollector said: Me! You've neglected to mention the Bill Ward contribution! As I understood it the whole battle sequence was not by Romita. I'd heard Jack Davis, rather than Bill Ward. But I remember reading that comic as a kid and thinking those pages didn't look at all the same as the other pages in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvin Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 50 minutes ago, tth2 said: Correlation between prices before the floor auction and final bids = 0. I don't understand why people get so worked up over bids before the floor. true, but if you were a consigner, having the price close to what you want before it hits the floor gives you comfort. and if you were a bidder.. gives you hope if it was low... Malvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 And now, up pops Catawiki with an auction having something I might want to buy (for a change). The best laid plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 6 hours ago, tth2 said: Correlation between prices before the floor auction and final bids = 0. I don't understand why people get so worked up over bids before the floor. It's because, even if there is little precision in linking the Internet bidding price to the ultimate sale price during the live bidding session, there is a wide variance of outcomes during the live session. If everything in the live session did a lot better than during the Internet bidding session, then the correlation wouldn't be zero, on the contrary, there would be a high correlation given the predictable relationship. Hence...people get worked up, because there's no guarantee that a low price in the Internet session will normalize in the live session. Even in this overall strong market, lots do fall through the cracks regularly, especially for more niche/genre pieces (mainstream first-tier Marvel & DC hero art not often these days). Hence, agita. My consignments still need to rise 71% for me just to break even today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 11 hours ago, glendgold said: Honestly, I look at the CM 32 cover as the first draft of, uh, another Starlin cover that I like better. You? Starlin: "Really Good at Manspreading." Nope, I prefer the CM cover over the Warlock cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo M Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said: Nope, I prefer the CM cover over the Warlock cover I have a bit of a vested interest, yet I found very suprising that both Sal's Cap and Kane's Thor covers ended up higher than the Avengers cover by Kirby. I wonder if this is due to i) good quality of the Buscema and Kane covers (both really good IMHO), ii) a bit of fatigue by Kirby investors after the Cap cover and the FF Annual stuff, and given the Silver Surfer pin-up coming right after (excellent piece, congratulations to the buyer?), iii) the Avengers cover not being from a peak Kirby period. I guess a combination of all the above is probably the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 6 hours ago, tth2 said: Uh, weren't you one of the people ridiculing high prices back in 2014? The OA market plateaued for a bit in 2013-14 (at a high level, to be sure) so it would not have been realistic at the time to stretch for outsized prices to the extent that one can and should today (top, top, top tier examples excepted of course). In the current strong/rising market, it makes all the sense in the world not to be tied to stale comps for the better material. As I've said before: in a strongly rising market, one should expect prices to be exceeding historical comps regularly. I'll also note that, longer-term predictions about the market aside, I'm usually very on point with my predictions (mostly in private and occasionally here for big pieces like the Egyptian Queen and Bats #251) regarding where auction results will end up. 6 hours ago, tth2 said: But wasn't everyone here ridiculing the asking price at SDCC? Not me. My first reaction when I saw the $250K price tag at SDCC was that it sounded low compared to Thibodeaux's usual pricing. I didn't think it was a bargain at that price, but, I certainly didn't think it was an unreasonable starting point for negotiations either, especially in light of other big ticket sales in 2018-19 up to that point. Matches_Malone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstojano Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, grapeape said: Yeah...didn’t sell. Back to the drawing board for HA and the consignor. Many CGC members felt this wasn’t a strong painting. Well when this piece first listed (Frazetta Gollum) I was putting it into the same category as the dracula piece that sold at CL for 40k fairly recently. I figured maybe it was 1.5-2x the value; gollum being older (1973) and more prime period. Is Tolkien-dom a bigger deal than Dracula/horror? I have no idea. I'd love to hear expert dissection of the two paintings. The point is, according to the CL listing a middle of the road Frazetta oil is not be default a 6 figure piece. Edited November 22, 2019 by cstojano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, cstojano said: Well when this piece first listed (Frazetta Gollum) I was putting it into the same category as the dracula piece that sold at CL for 40k fairly recently. I figured maybe it was 1.5-2x the value; gollum being older (1973) and more prime period. Is Tolkien-dom a bigger deal than Dracula/horror? I have no idea. I'd love to hear expert dissection of the two paintings. The point is, according to the CL listing a middle of the road Frazetta oil is not be default a 6 figure piece. Just FYI, the Dracula piece is from 1975 (was signed/dated in 1989), so, it's essentially the same period for Frazetta. That said, yeah, these are both 4th tier Frazetta oils...$200K plus juice for Gollum seemed rather ambitious. There are still Fritz examples in the $100Ks and some even in the 5-figure range. Remember this 1970 Frazetta oil that sold for only $22.8K earlier this year. Granted, it's an advertising piece, but, it's still hella cool and seemed very well bought to me at the time (I was somewhat tempted to throw a bid in at the end!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, delekkerste said: The OA market plateaued for a bit in 2013-14 (at a high level, to be sure) so it would not have been realistic at the time to stretch for outsized prices to the extent that one can and should today (top, top, top tier examples excepted of course). In the current strong/rising market, it makes all the sense in the world not to be tied to stale comps for the better material. As I've said before: in a strongly rising market, one should expect prices to be exceeding historical comps regularly. I'll also note that, longer-term predictions about the market aside, I'm usually very on point with my predictions (mostly in private and occasionally here for big pieces like the Egyptian Queen and Bats #251) regarding where auction results will end up. Not me. My first reaction when I saw the $250K price tag at SDCC was that it sounded low compared to Thibodeaux's usual pricing. I didn't think it was a bargain at that price, but, I certainly didn't think it was an unreasonable starting point for negotiations either, especially in light of other big ticket sales in 2018-19 up to that point. So when the market is high, pay more and when the market is cold, buy less? Just want to make sure I’m clear on the advice sounds a lot like buy high sell low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bronty said: So when the market is high, pay more and when the market is cold, buy less? Just want to make sure I’m clear on the advice sounds a lot like buy high sell low I'm not giving buying advice, I'm giving selling advice. And it's not even advice so much as just the reality of the situation. Don't hate the playa, baby, hate the game. Edited November 22, 2019 by delekkerste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, delekkerste said: people get worked up, because there's no guarantee that a low price in the Internet session will normalize in the live session. Yes, but there's also no guarantee that a low price in the Internet session will result in a low final price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, delekkerste said: I'm not giving buying advice, I'm giving selling advice. And it's not even advice so much as just the reality of the situation. Don't hate the playa, baby, hate the game. Not hating on anybody! Just poking fun to trigger you a little bit Anyways comic art is not a game I play much blah blah blah you’ve heard it before. now sell me Groo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, tth2 said: Yes, but there's also no guarantee that a low price in the Internet session will result in a low final price. Sure, but it's the uncertainty that's the killer! There's good volatility (prices ripping higher) and bad volatility (markets tanking), but, there's a reason why we call the VIX Index "the fear gauge" and not the "euphoria gauge" or "fear/euphoria gauge". Uncertainty is the enemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 THere was a lot of Kirby art in this auction. A lot! I don’t keep track of Kirby sales so for those in the ‘know’, did the non-A level material sell above FMV in general, did it underperform or was it more or less ‘just right’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo M Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said: THere was a lot of Kirby art in this auction. A lot! I don’t keep track of Kirby sales so for those in the ‘know’, did the non-A level material sell above FMV in general, did it underperform or was it more or less ‘just right’? See my eralier post, which I transcribe here: I have a bit of a vested interest, yet I found very suprising that both Sal's Cap and Kane's Thor covers ended up higher than the Avengers cover by Kirby. I wonder if this is due to i) good quality of the Buscema and Kane covers (both really good IMHO), ii) a bit of fatigue by Kirby investors after the Cap cover and the FF Annual stuff, and given the Silver Surfer pin-up coming right after (excellent piece, congratulations to the buyer?), iii) the Avengers cover not being from a peak Kirby period. I guess a combination of all the above is probably the right answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
