GA 9.4 to 9.6 to 9.8... Observing a trend 3 3

[MasterChief]

3 hours ago, N e r V said:

On 9/5/2019 at 5:23 PM, lou_fine said:

I think we all remember this now classic Edgar Church Mile High book which started life out as a CGC 4.0 graded copy:

 

and then graduated to become a CGC 7.5 graded copy:

 

before finally acheiving its current CGC 9.0 graded honors, all while residing in a Blue Universal unrestored slab:

 

Not only did we learn all about undisclosed pressing and what had been happening behind the scene at the time from this book amongst many others, but we also learned for the first time that "disassembly and reassembly of a comic book in and of itself does not constitute restoration" and this was how a book could go from a grade of 4.0 right up to a grade of 9.0.    Why, how absolutely silly of the hobby place to have thought otherwise for all those long decades before CGC finally opened our eyes to thankfully let us see the light at long last.      

I also noticed that Heritage must be making more money as they are apparently putting stronger and stronger light bulbs in their buildings as the years go by.  

It looks like it had a piece out at the staple as a 4.0? If so, not sure how it got  away from conserved or restored labels.

I do think it looks pretty damn nice to begin with to be a legit 4.0 in general. 

Wanted to post this info last night but couldn't find it... 

Below are the grader notes for the BC#17 Church copy. They were included in a cliffs notes thread back in January 2006. IIRC, the grader notes were from the original BC#17 discussion that was locked/deleted.

Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 4.0 0043270016 3 graders @ 4.0. Spine Wear, Possible Sub Crease, Edge Wear, 2 Centerfolds Detached.

Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 7.5 0069391002 3 graders @ 8.0, 2 graders @7.5 Bend Mid-Front, Light Edge Wear, Light Stains Top of Cover, Light Finger print on Y, Cover Loose.

Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 9.0 0721664004 3 graders @ 9.0, Slight Staple Tears, Shadow Top Back Cover 
 

[lou_fine]

12 hours ago, N e r V said:

It looks like it had a piece out at the staple as a 4.0? If so, not sure how it got  away from conserved or restored labels.

I do think it looks pretty damn nice to begin with to be a legit 4.0 in general. 

Have you gone back to the previous page with the link provided by Masterchief for the post that was started by Borock to explain the situation with Boy Comics 17?  

[N e r V]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Have you gone back to the previous page with the link provided by Masterchief for the post that was started by Borock to explain the situation with Boy Comics 17?  

I didn’t. Thank you.

[telerites]

13 hours ago, MasterChief said:

Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 4.0 0043270016 3 graders @ 4.0. Spine Wear, Possible Sub Crease, Edge Wear, 2 Centerfolds Detached.

Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 7.5 0069391002 3 graders @ 8.0, 2 graders @7.5 Bend Mid-Front, Light Edge Wear, Light Stains Top of Cover, Light Finger print on Y, Cover Loose.

Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 9.0 0721664004 3 graders @ 9.0, Slight Staple Tears, Shadow Top Back Cover

Wow.

[Mmehdy]

On 9/8/2019 at 10:54 AM, lou_fine said:

Mitch;

Where was you in 2005 when this whole "opening of the kimono" was being revealed to us for the first time by boardies like Masterchief, Redhook, and even Danny Boy himself?  

A lot of fun and games or shall we say angst on the part of most board members here when their eyes were opened for the first time.  Definitely not a case of proactive explanation fo changes to what was then thought to be previously long held established grading standards and restoration definitions within the hobby place, especially since it came like 5 years after CGC first opened their doors for business.    

If I remember correctly, the above chart is nothing more than a mere fraction of what ended up being revealed in that particular thread.  

Not on the boards in 2005 and wish I was, I came a little late to the party. I think the CGC has given the comic book "investor" type a platform to speculate. The comic book or widget investor looks for one thing...profit whether it be short term or long...I cannot say they care about a coin in holder or card or a comic book in a slab.  This new grade bump process is quite distasteful to me as a long term collector, but a new way to speculate and make money for them. I think the fair way to do things is for CGC TO DISCLOSE THE COMIC BOOK HAS BEEN PRESSED ON THE LABEL  or other repair which is not considered to be resto if they know about it and if CCS does it.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Mmehdy

[whomerjay]

On 9/5/2019 at 3:22 PM, MrBedrock said:

If I won it I would at the very least have it reholdered. The old labels may represent purity to you but to me they are a warning of the toxic pool of rotting plastic waiting to damage the book.

Interesting. I would usually dismiss such a comment if it came from someone else.

i have many old label GA books. A bunch are top census or were when I bought them. 

I love them as old label for obvious reasons including greater likelihood they have not been messed with. Moreover, given what the old label represents to me, an old label slabbed book is IMO aesthetically superior. 

But if these slabs are unequivocally and significantly damaging the books, I will seriously consider either freeing them or reholdering.

I’m sure I’m not the only one in this situation. 

 

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, whomerjay said:

On 9/5/2019 at 12:22 PM, MrBedrock said:

If I won it I would at the very least have it reholdered. The old labels may represent purity to you but to me they are a warning of the toxic pool of rotting plastic waiting to damage the book.

Interesting. I would usually dismiss such a comment if it came from someone else.

i have many old label GA books. A bunch are top census or were when I bought them. 

I love them as old label for obvious reasons including greater likelihood they have not been messed with. Moreover, given what the old label represents to me, an old label slabbed book is IMO aesthetically superior. 

But if these slabs are unequivocally and significantly damaging the books, I will seriously consider either freeing them or reholdering.

I’m sure I’m not the only one in this situation. 

Well, let's hope that Richard responds here, because I am actually not sure if he meant this seriously or if he said it as a joke which is the way that I took his comment, as evident from my follow-up response to his comment.  

See if he got the Allentown copy of Wonderworld 13 reholdered since I know that it was originally graded way back in the early or middle part of 2000.  I believe Richard ended up buying that copy subsequent to the Manning auction and it might have already been reholdered at that point.  Can't remember since I know he has posted pictures of it a few times on the board here before.  

[MrBedrock]

25 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

5 hours ago, whomerjay said:

On 9/5/2019 at 2:22 PM, MrBedrock said:

If I won it I would at the very least have it reholdered. The old labels may represent purity to you but to me they are a warning of the toxic pool of rotting plastic waiting to damage the book.

Interesting. I would usually dismiss such a comment if it came from someone else.

i have many old label GA books. A bunch are top census or were when I bought them. 

I love them as old label for obvious reasons including greater likelihood they have not been messed with. Moreover, given what the old label represents to me, an old label slabbed book is IMO aesthetically superior. 

But if these slabs are unequivocally and significantly damaging the books, I will seriously consider either freeing them or reholdering.

I’m sure I’m not the only one in this situation. 

Well, let's hope that Richard responds here, because I am actually not sure if he meant this seriously or if he said it as a joke which is the way that I took his comment, as evident from my follow-up response to his comment.  

See if he got the Allentown copy of Wonderworld 13 reholdered since I know that it was originally graded way back in the early or middle part of 2000.  I believe Richard ended up buying that copy subsequent to the Manning auction and it might have already been reholdered at that point.  Can't remember since I know he has posted pictures of it a few times on the board here before.  

I am actually pretty serious for a few reasons. The early label holders really didn't fit the books very well. We know about shaken slab stuff but the other problem is that the inner well, if not stored well, over time will harden and yellow - much like old comic bags. I have opened many where the inner well is brittle and ready to crack. I think this is due to exposure to heat. I imagine over time the new holders could do the same but I am not a chemist and don't know that much about the makeup of either. All I do know is that those old label books have now been in their holders for fifteen years or more with the inner well compositionally (a word?) breaking down. I just don't feel comfortable with my books being stored in that environment.

[nearmint]

49 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

I am actually pretty serious for a few reasons. The early label holders really didn't fit the books very well. We know about shaken slab stuff but the other problem is that the inner well, if not stored well, over time will harden and yellow - much like old comic bags. I have opened many where the inner well is brittle and ready to crack. I think this is due to exposure to heat. I imagine over time the new holders could do the same but I am not a chemist and don't know that much about the makeup of either. All I do know is that those old label books have now been in their holders for fifteen years or more with the inner well compositionally (a word?) breaking down. I just don't feel comfortable with my books being stored in that environment.

Sounds like I've got some reholdering to do. 

Why does that sound dirty?

[whomerjay]

5 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

I am actually pretty serious for a few reasons. The early label holders really didn't fit the books very well. We know about shaken slab stuff but the other problem is that the inner well, if not stored well, over time will harden and yellow - much like old comic bags. I have opened many where the inner well is brittle and ready to crack. I think this is due to exposure to heat. I imagine over time the new holders could do the same but I am not a chemist and don't know that much about the makeup of either. All I do know is that those old label books have now been in their holders for fifteen years or more with the inner well compositionally (a word?) breaking down. I just don't feel comfortable with my books being stored in that environment.

Thanks. Well, it would be nice to reholder and use the old label for the slab. Wonder if CGC would create this option?

[adamstrange]

15 minutes ago, whomerjay said:

Thanks. Well, it would be nice to reholder and use the old label for the slab. Wonder if CGC would create this option?

The label is designed to be damaged if you remove it so if they re-used it then you would have a slab that looked like it was faked in some way.

[N e r V]

8 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

I am actually pretty serious for a few reasons. The early label holders really didn't fit the books very well. We know about shaken slab stuff but the other problem is that the inner well, if not stored well, over time will harden and yellow - much like old comic bags. I have opened many where the inner well is brittle and ready to crack. I think this is due to exposure to heat. I imagine over time the new holders could do the same but I am not a chemist and don't know that much about the makeup of either. All I do know is that those old label books have now been in their holders for fifteen years or more with the inner well compositionally (a word?) breaking down. I just don't feel comfortable with my books being stored in that environment.

You’re more than welcome to send all your books over to me where they can enjoy their life on the beach in sunny weather with volleyball and bikinis all day long. What better environment could you ask for?

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by N e r V

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, szav said:

Cat-Man_America is gonna need a couple extra beers  after reading this one...

Not sure that would work...

 

 

He might want to try glue... 

[telerites]

13 hours ago, nearmint said:

Sounds like I've got some reholdering to do. 

Why does that sound dirty?

Just don't do it too often or you'll go blind.