Can GPA do anything about apparent shilled auctions? 0

[kav]

Like if signs of shilling are overwhelming in an attempt to manipulate GPA can they delete that book from their database?

@gpanalysis

Edited September 8, 2019 by kav

[Naphtha]

Just now, kav said:

Like if signs of shilling are overwhelming in an attempt to manipulate GPA can they delete that book from their database?

@gpanalysis

I've contacted them multiple times on this seller and they said they would not take the listings down if there are different cert numbers. This is obviously going much further down than one sale. This stretches back to the price hikes of the FF48 as I watched multiple sales happen that just didn't make sense.

[kav]

Just now, Naphtha said:

I've contacted them multiple times on this seller and they said they would not take the listings down if there are different cert numbers. This is obviously going much further down than one sale. This stretches back to the price hikes of the FF48 as I watched multiple sales happen that just didn't make sense.

Man I really hope they rethink this and become proactive or at least respond to reports like yours with action.

[Naphtha]

Just now, kav said:

Man I really hope they rethink this and become proactive or at least respond to reports like yours with action.

Definitely. I hope they do for the sake of every collector who spent hard earned money on issues at prices that were based on their aggregate. I don't even know what to think at this point. This is fraud.

[kav]

6 minutes ago, Naphtha said:

Definitely. I hope they do for the sake of every collector who spent hard earned money on issues at prices that were based on their aggregate. I don't even know what to think at this point. This is fraud.

Plus the effect it has on their accuracy.  Anything that threatens that weakens their value as a business.

[gpanalysis]

We've taken those sales down that are relists and we're looking into the rest. The problem here is proving that sales that aren't relisted (different books) have not gone through. That's not something we have the means to determine easily. 

[Naphtha]

16 minutes ago, kav said:

Plus the effect it has on their accuracy.  Anything that threatens that weakens their value as a business.

Agreed, but I'm more concerned with the listed $115,000,000 worth of books this company is supposed to be indexing. If the legitimacy of GPA is flushed then what happens to our collections? How would we even attempt to justify value? Yes we're collectors first but I'll openly say that I've spent a lot on books in the last three years and now I'm questioning where those prices were coming from. The hottest books of the last 2 years may have just been this clown using tax havens to screw up everything.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Naphtha

[kav]

1 hour ago, gpanalysis said:

We've taken those sales down that are relists and we're looking into the rest. The problem here is proving that sales that aren't relisted (different books) have not gone through. That's not something we have the means to determine easily. 

Just a suggestion/opinion but you can make the call if something seems fishy to you without having to actually prove it.  If a book is indeed increasing in value, it will still get bumped up by all the other sales.

Edited September 8, 2019 by kav

[gpanalysis]

28 minutes ago, Naphtha said:

I've contacted them multiple times on this seller and they said they would not take the listings down if there are different cert numbers. 

Are you sure that's how we framed it? You contacted us about the two different FF books and Andy responded with:

Hi Andrew, the two sales have different cert numbers. The $1875 sale has the cert id 0004265018 and the one they have currently listed has the cert id 1968240017. If we see the same book come up for re-sale by the same seller, we do endeavour to remove the previous sale. We'll certainly monitor to the best of our ability the books being offered.

That certainly doesn't mean we won't take books down (outside of the above scenario), just that we need to investigate some of these further. And as I noted, difficult to determine that sales haven't gone through on some occasions.

[gpanalysis]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Just a suggestion but you can make the call if something seems fishy to you without having to actually prove it.  If a book is indeed increasing in value, it will still get bumped up by all the other sales.

And we have done and do this on occasion. However just because a book sells for more than you feel it should (or lower) doesn't always mean the sale didn't go through.

[Naphtha]

1 minute ago, gpanalysis said:

Are you sure that's how we framed it? You contacted us about the two different FF books and Andy responded with:

Hi Andrew, the two sales have different cert numbers. The $1875 sale has the cert id 0004265018 and the one they have currently listed has the cert id 1968240017. If we see the same book come up for re-sale by the same seller, we do endeavour to remove the previous sale. We'll certainly monitor to the best of our ability the books being offered.

That certainly doesn't mean we won't take books down (outside of the above scenario), just that we need to investigate some of these further. And as I noted, difficult to determine that sales haven't gone through on some occasions.

it was not my intention to put any blame on any person or GPA as a company. If I came across that way I apologize. This is about fraud and I think we should stick to bigger picture. 

The listed sales from Berkbridge only date back to June but I can assure you the ASM15 9.0 that sold for 6k is not a legit sale.

[kav]

3 minutes ago, gpanalysis said:

And we have done and do this on occasion. However just because a book sells for more than you feel it should (or lower) doesn't always mean the sale didn't go through.

You're doing the best you can then that's all anyone can do.  People can still check GPA and if they see some huge outlier take that into consideration when deciding what to pay for a book.

[Naphtha]

6 minutes ago, gpanalysis said:

And we have done and do this on occasion. However just because a book sells for more than you feel it should (or lower) doesn't always mean the sale didn't go through.

Have you read the thread I posted? This is happening on almost every key they are selling. This dates back to the FF48 spike in 2018. Everytime this person pulls a 30-40% spike on a specific issue every dealer in the country takes note. And in another few weeks Berkbridge does it again. Before long we have 300% price hikes on issues in a matter of months.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Naphtha

[gpanalysis]

6 hours ago, Naphtha said:

I think we should stick to bigger picture. 

Completely agree

6 hours ago, Naphtha said:

The listed sales from Berkbridge only date back to June but I can assure you the ASM15 9.0 that sold for 6k is not a legit sale.

Do you have additional info on why? 

Edited September 8, 2019 by gpanalysis

[Xenosmilus]

What I want to know is how a Women's Charity (Berkbridge), gets so many good books!  They tried to buy something from me and kept saying its for charity blah blah blah and how I should sell it to them dirt cheap.

[Naphtha]

1 hour ago, gpanalysis said:

Do you have additional info on why? 

Previous sale was <4k. 3 weeks later it magically sells for 6k? The 12 month average was 3300. You can hang on lack of reasonable doubt but we all have common sense. 

I can go through every sale listed and show examples but I already posted 4-5 in the last three weeks. 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Naphtha

[Naphtha]

Just now, Xenosmilus said:

What I want to know is how a Women's Charity (Berkbridge), gets so many good books!  They tried to buy something from me and kept saying its for charity blah blah blah and how I should sell it to them dirt cheap.

There is a single person with royalties.

[gpanalysis]

3 minutes ago, Naphtha said:

Previous sale was <4k. 3 weeks later it magically sells for 6k? The 12 month average was 3300. You can hang on lack of unreasonable doubt but we all have common sense. 

I can go through every sale listed and show examples but I already posted 4-5 in the last three weeks. 

 

So what's the consensus? Remove the sales by this seller for the moment until further info can establish what's going on? 

[Heronext]

5 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

What I want to know is how a Women's Charity (Berkbridge), gets so many good books!  They tried to buy something from me and kept saying its for charity blah blah blah and how I should sell it to them dirt cheap.

They approached me once the same way

[Naphtha]

44 minutes ago, gpanalysis said:

So what's the consensus? Remove the sales by this seller for the moment until further info can establish what's going on? 

In my opinion every sale from that seller should be taken down. There is a lot of accrued value based on those sales. However, the only way to maintain legitimacy of the market is to oust this person. 

Also, this is hardly my call. More people need to chime in.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Naphtha