UPDATE: initial testing done. Removing age yellowing
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On 11/3/2019 at 12:54 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Cool!

Any chance I could send you the wife's teeth? :)

Lol

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On 11/3/2019 at 12:33 PM, 427Impaler said:

I’ve been working on ways to remove age yellowing/tanning without fading ink or doing damage to the paper.  After playing around with the current methods; bleaching, UV exposure, etc,  I think I may have found a solution.  Still testing things but so far no PH issues and seems color fast on everything.

EB71C364-CE24-4A8D-ACFE-2BD8909DE3BB.jpeg

79873737-8FB9-4E96-99F7-0FE23ECDBA97.png

Absolutely amazing results. Love me a white cover

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I enjoyed this thread and believe that your heart and intentions are pure .I would be very interested in this process.

Like you I am no kid . 55 been collecting for 51 of those years.

I am yet to sell my first comic. I own 4 graded all bought this year simply because I couldn't find an equivalent raw. 

clearly , I am a low risk volunteer to assist , second source/test the process on some of my dire need books. Doc Savage,Cap, etc etc 

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Third and final update on this round of testing.  The untreated piece is one fold brittle after another 48 hours.  The treated piece was folded completely in half twenty times before it finally split.  This is not a purely cosmetic fix like other methods of lightening paper, this also makes paper more resistant to acid hydrolysis, which presents as browning of paper and brittleness.  
 

Next test is a chemical analysis of what is coming out of the paper, this is done by evaporating the solutions and doing an analysis of the residue.  Sourcing a research chemist at his point to do a complete study.  More aging is being done in different types of paper to confirm results with repeatability.
 

after three sessions;

B43A0BF3-E32C-4C92-9D86-4BEDAB080931.thumb.jpeg.2a610a1ee04a6d80da4e9408982f2814.jpeg

 

fold results:

6B7E5BCE-1024-44FF-8C64-379687ACBC45.thumb.jpeg.f4f220f24873c156a01ac0c82f781ee0.jpeg

 

Initial pic and post testing pic:

3B0E396F-12B5-4EA4-A92C-5428DD3C2199.thumb.png.57ee9e4588606e4931f911a7714a7688.png

 

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Very interesting Professor Impaler. Since the Din ky Duck cover is almost 70 years old, you may have found a way to extend the comic cover's paper stock's life 5 fold. A noble sacrifice of a Duck comic in the name of Conservation Science. :download:

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18 hours ago, 427Impaler said:

Third and final update on this round of testing.  The untreated piece is one fold brittle after another 48 hours.  The treated piece was folded completely in half twenty times before it finally split.  This is not a purely cosmetic fix like other methods of lightening paper, this also makes paper more resistant to acid hydrolysis, which presents as browning of paper and brittleness.  
 

Next test is a chemical analysis of what is coming out of the paper, this is done by evaporating the solutions and doing an analysis of the residue.  Sourcing a research chemist at his point to do a complete study.  More aging is being done in different types of paper to confirm results with repeatability.
 

after three sessions;

B43A0BF3-E32C-4C92-9D86-4BEDAB080931.thumb.jpeg.2a610a1ee04a6d80da4e9408982f2814.jpeg

 

fold results:

6B7E5BCE-1024-44FF-8C64-379687ACBC45.thumb.jpeg.f4f220f24873c156a01ac0c82f781ee0.jpeg

 

Initial pic and post testing pic:

3B0E396F-12B5-4EA4-A92C-5428DD3C2199.thumb.png.57ee9e4588606e4931f911a7714a7688.png

 

(thumbsu

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Next round of testing, slight change from the last test.  As the process is part of a de-acidification the question came up is the resistance from age related deterioration due to the new process or is it partially or completely due to the de-acidification?  Now we will find out conclusively, two new pieces were selected from a 1954 Atlas comic loose back cover.  Both were selected from the middle of the page, both had top and bottom trim to equalize any edge differences.  One was untouched and the other treated with the lignin chelation and no added de-acidification buffer.  Both will undergo one week at 80 degree Celsius at 60 percent humidity.  Flipped each day and checked every 48 hours.  
 

While we are having this done we also thought “let’s see if we can answer the question does pressing damage a comic?“.  So we cut a book in half, and pressed one half.  There are lots of ways to press a book so please don’t immediately go on the attack.  My feeling is the experienced excellent pressers out there do not over cook books and are not doing any damage.  On the other hand I have spoken to many Newbie pressers who theough a book into the press for 2-4 minutes at 180 degrees.  Hell I smoked some books learning what not to do.  For this test we pressed the book on both sides for one minute fourth five seconds at 160 degrees.  Both pieces are undergoing the same aging test.  More of a fun exercise than anything conclusive, what do you guys think will happen?????

Here is pics of the test subjects and another mid grade white cover for fun.

new test subjects

BEEFE12A-791A-452F-AEEF-2F72403705BF.thumb.jpeg.e4592942da17c6f448de7dc38b32b088.jpeg5A2E131F-6B45-4FF6-BE84-8C36A76BE273.thumb.jpeg.025725ee7124b003d46caedb82b7ffb9.jpeg
 

The Dell pressing test book we murdered

BCBFA35B-A77E-49D3-B820-6C01577D39F5.thumb.jpeg.b263f6a7c71360581f5f4d171510392b.jpeg

1BB1C191-8943-4A1A-BAA5-A67BB2160139.thumb.jpeg.d5f85c0f5dbe357a36f34bdc16b334e3.jpeg

 

Another paper improvement 

57661A48-78D2-46A7-B217-A304EA6DBAD6.thumb.jpeg.7e3914e77005099898f16585ab90b376.jpeg

7CE1754E-DE60-4823-98C8-C98B54487EEA.thumb.jpeg.27acac4ce02e4286000f3c775a1c8852.jpeg

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Edited by 427Impaler
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Agreed. Amazing. 

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nice on the nick fury agents of shield but it also looks like some colour lifted off you can see that scropio lettering and the green hypnosis rings. was this from the pressing only or the treatment as well.. 

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4 hours ago, Krismusic said:

nice on the nick fury agents of shield but it also looks like some colour lifted off you can see that scropio lettering and the green hypnosis rings. was this from the pressing only or the treatment as well.. 

I went back to the original pics and I think I would blame it on my poor picture taking.  Before pic was a slightly blurry when magnified and that combined with upload compression hid some defects.  I cropped before and after pics here for comparison, have another cover to test and use the scanner this time.

62AD3BA3-873B-470E-8FDF-86DDBC97FF82.thumb.png.bd24e61f83f581652da314e269e4ca54.png

791FDD72-19C2-4A95-B37E-492EB9154FF0.thumb.png.6b77e806b24d8d65f97b2f55901b02b1.png

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16 hours ago, 427Impaler said:

I went back to the original pics and I think I would blame it on my poor picture taking.  Before pic was a slightly blurry when magnified and that combined with upload compression hid some defects.  I cropped before and after pics here for comparison, have another cover to test and use the scanner this time.

62AD3BA3-873B-470E-8FDF-86DDBC97FF82.thumb.png.bd24e61f83f581652da314e269e4ca54.png

791FDD72-19C2-4A95-B37E-492EB9154FF0.thumb.png.6b77e806b24d8d65f97b2f55901b02b1.png

Ok yeah the pictures I guess hid a bit of the defects.. look forward to the scans your going to try 

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Very impressive so far. I'm sure this will become even more controversial than pressing, especially as the process seems to not only whiten whites, but actually strengthen paper integrity. I can see a day when some collectors insist the yellowed patina of an untreated comic is preferable.

As to worrying about misrepresentation of treated books, we are fast heading to if not already at a point where valuable vintage comic books can be counterfeited expertly enough that without chemical analysis of paper and ink, it would be impossible to tell. That's potentially a far bigger issue, especially with valuable, but not super premium books. For the same reasons counterfeiters prefer to produce $20 bills over $100 bills, it probably won't be an Action #1 that is successfully counterfeited. 

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On 11/6/2019 at 8:42 PM, aardvark88 said:

I understand your concern and your desire to collect pure Blue label CGC comics. My concern is that my GA comics are about 80 years old now and indeed need some conservation or de-acidification. CGC's own definition of conservation allows for a small amount of color touch or paper piece in-fill, rice (Japan) paper, small amount of re-gloss, married interior wrap(s), solvent cleaning and archival tape. I hope we live to 100, and can still enjoy GA comics that are not brown/black and flaking apart as we attempt to flip the lignin pages.

Let's jump at 1:50 then watch the book crumbles.

Edited by JollyComics

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Just a quick update, here is a mid grade comic that has some yellowing.  Relying on scans this time to take out my sketchy picture taking variable, scans are untouched and straight out of a Canon MG5500.  Also have some updates as far as brittleness, this is unscientific at this point but working on a Subby 1 that had heavy tape and required reinforcement on three edges with Japanese paper, after treatment the book no longer requires the reinforcement.  This is no magic bullet as the further the deterioration the less effect this has on the paper.  Still waiting on chemical analysis to validate the hypothesis but very hopeful that this is something that can be a positive thing in historic and collectible paper artifacts.

IMG_20191124_0001.thumb.jpg.0339f48d261699ad102aa3cca0ff2db1.jpg

IMG_20191124_0002.thumb.jpg.c3b8361706a829f9671ecf8a0f1a02eb.jpg

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IMG_20191124_0004.thumb.jpg.6e2f3320a5c8b15c583bdcf08622eb1a.jpg

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Also, here are results of the aging test without de-acidification.  After 2 48 hour stretches the control piece was brittle at 4 folds and also broke horizontally while being tested.  The treated paper just began to separate at ten folds.  Promising results that indicate possible reduction in lignin content.  Have to wait for chemistry for confirmation.

i do understand fully the concern of this process being done without disclosure.  There are those people who only care about profit.  If this really can prolong the life of paper artifacts, I won’t hesitate to do every book in my personal collection just to not worry what they are doing while in their slabs and bags.  I am sure lots of us have had it happen where you crack a book or pull it from a Mylar and find it has degraded since the last time it was out.  Either way, this is not available for use right now.  Strictly experimentation and food for discussion

E1A89C9E-1631-405F-8876-B51D38A40398.thumb.jpeg.24d63cfa590612d54a03ae21e1ce45dd.jpeg

459F7F3E-0A4B-42F9-A704-5B1D9D57E629.thumb.jpeg.076d1c91a2fe9ed54af8a0229c3d1be4.jpeg

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11 hours ago, 427Impaler said:

Just a quick update, here is a mid grade comic that has some yellowing.  Relying on scans this time to take out my sketchy picture taking variable, scans are untouched and straight out of a Canon MG5500.  Also have some updates as far as brittleness, this is unscientific at this point but working on a Subby 1 that had heavy tape and required reinforcement on three edges with Japanese paper, after treatment the book no longer requires the reinforcement.  This is no magic bullet as the further the deterioration the less effect this has on the paper.  Still waiting on chemical analysis to validate the hypothesis but very hopeful that this is something that can be a positive thing in historic and collectible paper artifacts.

 

IMG_20191124_0003.thumb.jpg.e6816381a4630e444dd041935df88207.jpg

IMG_20191124_0004.thumb.jpg.6e2f3320a5c8b15c583bdcf08622eb1a.jpg

The treatment seems to have introduced waves into the book, such as along the left edge of the back cover.

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13 minutes ago, namisgr said:

The treatment seems to have introduced waves into the book, such as along the left edge of the back cover.

The waves are caused by allowing it to air dry without any pressing or weighted drying, just wanted to check for any color loss without the pressing variable.

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I am not sure and just tossing it out there as you want discussion.. I love the process and that it brings more structural integrity to the books but to me it seems to maybe be lifting something such as maybe gloss or colour very very very slightly like maybe at the microscopic level.. you can kind of notice it a bit in the IRON MAN red title. Maybe just a theory that the lignin that your removing might have colour or gloss attached with it and removing it leaves the colours not as sharp? or looking grainy kind of. I circled a few to zoom in on maybe it doesn't look like it in real life compared to photos just going off on the images you scanned. I mean the grainy that I am looking at also seems to be mildly through out the book some more harsher near certain spots too which leads me to believe or guess that maybe those areas had heavier tanning or lignin removal.. as I am not sure of your process.. 

before 

image.png.ed6b654e9350726535ebaa5d52a71f84.png

After

image.thumb.png.c5e9914d772107fababb3f1799a6fecd.png

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