Amazing Spider-Man #39 OA by Steve Ditko 0

[Timely]

With Steve Ditko quitting Marvel so abruptly in 1966, do you think he had already starting drawing art for Amazing Spider-Man #39?

When Ditko left DC, he had already finished part of Beware the Creeper #6, so it's possible part of ASM #39 was also completed when he left Marvel.

 

Thoughts?

[vodou]

Is this a foreshadowing post that we should expect to see his family consigning this type of material soon?

If so - VERY COOL

[Bronty]

Interesting 

[grapeape]

Just now, vodou said:

Is this a foreshadowing post that we should expect to see his family consigning this type of material soon?

If so - VERY COOL

I was thinking the same thing.......

[pemart1966]

How abrupt was his departure?  It wasn't abrupt enough for them to have missed an issue...

On a related topic.  Did Ditko get anything back from Marvel in the way of Spider-Man art?  At one point, he was said to have the complete Spider-Man #5...

[grapeape]

1 hour ago, pemart1966 said:

How abrupt was his departure?  It wasn't abrupt enough for them to have missed an issue...

On a related topic.  Did Ditko get anything back from Marvel in the way of Spider-Man art?  At one point, he was said to have the complete Spider-Man #5...

I was told at one point that someone visiting him saw at least one page of Spider-Man art (don’t know what page.)

It was laying around  hopefully not a TV dinner placemat. 

 

[jjonahjameson11]

3 hours ago, Timely said:

With Steve Ditko quitting Marvel so abruptly in 1966, do you think he had already starting drawing art for Amazing Spider-Man #39?

When Ditko left DC, he had already finished part of Beware the Creeper #6, so it's possible part of ASM #39 was also completed when he left Marvel.

 

Thoughts?

Strange Tales 147? 

[glenbru]

 

I saw this post on the Brian Bendis tumbler page.  Bendis talks about a story told to him some time ago by former Marvel editor Ralph Macchio who went to visit Steve Ditko at his studio.  Ralph apparently saw a pile of Dr. Strange art by Ditko that had never been published by Marvel.  Ditko told Ralph that the pages were for a brand new Dr. Strange graphic novel--never intended to be published--just drawn for Ditko's own pleasure.  I found this to be astounding.  Here is the post borrowed from the Bendis page:

 

Have you ever talked to Ditko? Any second hand stories even?

Anonymous

I had an amazingly similar experience to the one Jonathan Ross had.

 when I was doing my series of creator interviews for Wizard magazine I reached out to him. I knew full well that he didn’t do interviews anymore but I thought MAYBE if it was a creator creator interview there might be a slim chance he would be up for it.

 I got his number from our mutual friend and editor Ralph macchio. I called him up and explained myself and who I was and what I wanted to do.

he said he appreciated that but he didn’t do interviews.

 I said I completely understand but, off the record, I was curious to what happened that made him not want to do interviews anymore.

 he said that’s an excellent question but it’s an interview question and I DON’T DO INTERVIEWS ANYMORE!!!

 before he hung up I was able to thank him profusely for creating Spiderman and all that that has given me in my life. I do know that on some level he heard me so I feel really good about that.

Ralph told me that he went to his house yeares ago and saw a big pile of Dr. strange original art and he asked what it was for.  Steve said that it is a brand-new Dr. strange graphic novel. Ralph asked when he could read it and he said: no, that that’s not for you it’s just for me.

 you have to admire the purity

 

[bluechip]

4 hours ago, Timely said:

With Steve Ditko quitting Marvel so abruptly in 1966, do you think he had already starting drawing art for Amazing Spider-Man #39?

When Ditko left DC, he had already finished part of Beware the Creeper #6, so it's possible part of ASM #39 was also completed when he left Marvel.

 

Thoughts?

It's fun to think he started working on 39 and did some pages before it got him worked up emotionally and quit.   But he actually quit before he finished 38, since he didn't deliver a cover with the book and they had to concoct one from stats of interior panels.

[bluechip]

Suppose it's possible that he did a cover for 38 which he never delivered, due to an oversight, and perhaps, knowing that he'd quit, Marvel never asked.  

[glendgold]

I've always thought he didn't even finish inking ASM 38. The Spidey figures strike me as someone else's work, but I might well be wrong.

[Unca Ben]

5 hours ago, glendgold said:

I've always thought he didn't even finish inking ASM 38. The Spidey figures strike me as someone else's work, but I might well be wrong.

Could be.  Yet, a job half-way done doesn't sound like Ditko.  Unless he was making a point, perhaps.

[glendgold]

13 hours ago, Unca Ben said:

Could be.  Yet, a job half-way done doesn't sound like Ditko.  Unless he was making a point, perhaps.

I think my day job ("Making Stuff Up^TM") is either helpful here or it gets in the way. I can envision a last issue where Ditko is clearly on autopilot (you ever read that story?) and trying to get through it as fast as possible, annoyed at not getting remunerated for Spider-Man properly, turning the book in with Spidey un-inked. The figure just looks weirdly flat to me whenever he appears. But I suspect that if he really did that, we would have heard about it. I can't imagine, say, Marie Severin never referring to that in an interview. So it's probably just me.

[grapeape]

20 hours ago, glendgold said:

I've always thought he didn't even finish inking ASM 38. The Spidey figures strike me as someone else's work, but I might well be wrong.

A lot relies on what the Ditko family reveals in the coming years. I think most anyone at Marvel privy to what was going on as Steve was about to move on has passed away. What kind of info did Ditko share with his family? Would this have even come up?

John  Romita certainly has to have insight into this no? So maybe Mike Burkey by association might know about issue 38?

 

[Unca Ben]

2 hours ago, glendgold said:

I think my day job ("Making Stuff Up^TM") is either helpful here or it gets in the way. I can envision a last issue where Ditko is clearly on autopilot (you ever read that story?) and trying to get through it as fast as possible, annoyed at not getting remunerated for Spider-Man properly, turning the book in with Spidey un-inked. The figure just looks weirdly flat to me whenever he appears. But I suspect that if he really did that, we would have heard about it. I can't imagine, say, Marie Severin never referring to that in an interview. So it's probably just me.

Yeah, I have read the story, when it came off the stands and then multiple times later on.  When it first came out, I thought Ditko slipped up on this one.  The book looked sloppy compared to previous work.  And when Romita was on the next issue and it was announced in the bullpen page that Steve had left, it kinda made more sense.

Now, to reinforce your theory, I've read that Ditko was turning in complete pages (as in already inked) to Stan and that he and Stan weren't communicating in person.  Yet, I have seen scans of the first page of ASM 38 with pencils only.  So unless Steve made the stats himself, I don't see how anyone at Marvel could have made those stats if Steve was only turning in complete, inked pages.

So there's that.

 

edit:  at least, I remember seeing these pencil stats somewhere. Hopefully it's not a false memory.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Unca Ben
disclaimer

[bluechip]

23 hours ago, glendgold said:

I've always thought he didn't even finish inking ASM 38. The Spidey figures strike me as someone else's work, but I might well be wrong.

There are many odd things about that issue.   Villain is lame and everything seems phoned in except for a couple moments that may shine a light into Ditko's psyche.  Parker goes on a Randian rant at student protesters, and Spidey's final Ditko-drawn punch is thrown at a mannequin just because it's smiling (very possibly meant as a parting shot at "Smilin' Stan").   

Edited December 12, 2019 by bluechip

[bluechip]

2 hours ago, Unca Ben said:

Yeah, I have read the story, when it came off the stands and then multiple times later on.  When it first came out, I thought Ditko slipped up on this one.  The book looked sloppy compared to previous work.  And when Romita was on the next issue and it was announced in the bullpen page that Steve had left, it kinda made more sense.

Now, to reinforce your theory, I've read that Ditko was turning in complete pages (as in already inked) to Stan and that he and Stan weren't communicating in person.  Yet, I have seen scans of the first page of ASM 38 with pencils only.  So unless Steve made the stats himself, I don't see how anyone at Marvel could have made those stats if Steve was only turning in complete, inked pages.

So there's that.

 

edit:  at least, I remember seeing these pencil stats somewhere. Hopefully it's not a false memory.

I, too, have this memory.

[Unca Ben]

1 hour ago, bluechip said:

There are many odd things about that issue.   Villain is lame and everything seems phoned in except for a couple moments that may shine a light into Ditko's psyche.  Parker goes on a Randian rant at student protesters, and Spidey's final Ditko-drawn punch is thrown at a mannequin just because it's smiling (very possibly meant as a parting shot at "Smilin' Stan").   

Yeah.  
It's interesting re-reading those issues armed with information that I didn't know back then.

Ditko (with or without Stan's input) was developing Peter Parker - especially after issue 28's high school graduation.  Pete went out and bought a new wardrobe - open collared shirts without a tie, instead of his usual more formal attire.  But Peter still exhibited a more conservative randian approach to the current topics of the time, as you pointed out.  I can see Stan having some difficulty with that as he was purposefully aiming his stories at high school and college kids, many of whom would likely have been put off by Ditko's more stringent philosophies.

After Ditko left the book and Lee and Romita took over, Peter and his friends changed quite a bit.  I'm not just talking about their more pleasing-to-the-eye physical appearances, but the way they behaved and interacted.
Pete and his friends meeting at the Coffee Bean with its beatnik overtones; MJ and Gwen go-go dancing; Stan's approach to student protests.
I can only imagine how Ditko might have handled this (if at all) - but I suspect it would have been much different than Romita & Lee.

In fact, if Ditko had continued the book and Peter had been portrayed with a more Mr. A - Vic Sage/the Question attitude, those later issues of ASM would have been much different that what we got.
Can you imagine Ditko portraying Mary Jane in a mini-skirt and go-go dancing at a club?  He was still clothing his females like they were in the 1950's.
I mean, I LOVE Ditko, but I shudder to imagine some of those potential scenarios.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Unca Ben

[Unca Ben]

... my above post being said, I would have loved to see Steve Ditko continue on the book, as I think he still had an overarching story to complete.  Mebbe to issue #50 -75?  The Green Goblin thing.  Pete finishing with his moving on from his first love Betty (and his crush on Liz, to some extent) and developing his relationship with Gwen.  And especially Pete maturing after his heroes-journey act two in the Master Planner trilogy.
Finally resolved of his guilt over the death of his Uncle Ben, Pete still had the third act in his heroes-journey to go.  His most serious encounter with death lay ahead of him. 
I would have loved to see Ditko finish that. 
I have a fairly strong conviction that Steve Ditko was working along those lines.  I don't think we would have had "the death of Uncle Ben" guilt-trip continued like it was.  I think Ditko was now beyond that.  His character had persevered and moved forward.

Ditko was a genius and his work on ASM was lightning in a bottle.  He put a whole lot into his work on the title, probably more than he let on.  That could have contributed to his disdain of Marvel and Stan when he felt that he couldn't continue to be taken advantage of.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Unca Ben

[Unca Ben]

Oh yeah, and would Ditko finally have revealed his hidden-character, Mary Jane Watson? 
That was a common troupe back in the day.  Sometime, the character was never completely revealed.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Unca Ben