Are people posting big wins on CAF?
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123 posts in this topic

When I first joined CAF in 2004, I posted all my best stuff only to see many pieces quickly sold to unsolicited offers—I’m grateful as always but a fair share of regrets in hindsight.  Today, I’ve changed a bit, posting some, not all, of my "big wins" as representative of my collecting interests.   Probably less inclined to post top pieces acquired via private sale/trade, not sure why...maybe they are more personal/nostalgic to me or because I paid too much. :insane:

Like many, I prefer to keep the majority of my collection private but usually post pieces several months (if not years) after acquiring them.  This delay allows me to enjoy new acquisitions privately and share with friends for a while but also helps me better identify “keepers” compared to those destined for upgrade or sale.  So, my CAF postings are “fully marinated and taste-tested” so to speak, and NFS by nature.  Finally, I’d like to think delayed timing helps downplay any pricing and/or boasting aspects when folks are highly tuned to the latest auction results or FS classifieds.  While my acquisitions (and budgets) can be lumpy, I try to post pieces on regular cadence (~ every two weeks), usually Sundays, with selections inspired by movie releases, holidays, artist birthdays, hobby trends or just personal whim.  This week, for example, I’m considering either a Star Wars or Frankenstein related post.  I know my buying will eventually slow down, so I hope my private inventory allows me to stay active on CAF for an extended time.

CAF remains core to my ongoing enjoyment and engagement with this hobby along with the CGC boards.  Amazing but I’ve learned more about fellow collectors based on their CAF galleries than personal interactions, so I want my CAF gallery and postings to be a good reflection of my collecting profile and personal values.  Recently, I joined the Facebook OA groups...my initial impression is that Facebook is highly linear and flow-oriented (like CGC postings) compared to the personalized, interactive and exploratory experience that I get with CAF.  Just my 2c

 

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19 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I can’t speak to the problems of publicly sharing a world class collection, but I have a bunch of smaller pieces (especially by comparison) that I don’t even bother posting on CAF because no one bat’s an eye. If it’s not $20k it’s “whatever” to others. Very little CAF users leave comments...not even for support. There’s not even a spirit of reciprocity. So what’s the real incentive of sharing?

CAF is cliquish.  It seems that collectors within whatever click respond to one another and ignore all others. 

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Not me, my if the piece moves me it gets a comment, that said I do tend to pay a little more attention to my buds, and throw a comment on a piece that I know they really enjoy but may not be in my wheel house. Now if there's the rare occasion where a collector is a questionable character, he gets the cold shoulder no matter how cool the piece.

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12 hours ago, glendgold said:

 I can't comprehend how people feel fine relying on their their documents, music and photos being in the cloud when they're doing the same with their memories. 

re: Cloud risk, outsourcing one's own responsibilities always carries enormous risk. That's why, psychologists say, the end (death, divorce, words that can't be walked back) of a long, close, relationship is so devastating: human nature is to outsource shared memories to others, it's part of the socialization we all enjoy. But when that person is gone, those memories (or at least significant chunks of them) disappear; in death, with no chance (hope) of recovery (reconciliation) even. Devastating. Cloud = same exact risk + you're sharing with anybody/everybody with access (authorized or not), not just whoever your intended audience is. And paying for it too.

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6 hours ago, Carlo M said:

...if there were fewer soft porn submissions, but freedom of expression has to prevail, I guess.

It doesn't on private property or temporarily rented property. That's property rights 101 (and a big part of why yelling "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater is a no-no, whether there's an actual fire or not!)

CAF is Bill's site -wholly owned, where paying for Premium Member gets you nothing other than additional features/access, you don't "own" (or even "rent" for 12 months) shares in the site, etc. Bill's site = Bill's private property. With this in mind, what Bill allows to occur on/in his private property is what Bill allows, where -in part allows = worth the effort/expense/risk of policing more vigilantly.

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51 minutes ago, gumbydarnit said:

Those who take their stuff down, their collection focus and reputation slowly gets forgotten about,

So true; why some long-time trophy wall collectors might even vehemently accuse you of being a krazy shill.

lollollollollol

It's fun! Life can be whatever you want it to be! Later Kirby art could even be very early pre-publication Kirby art!

(at least in your own mind, getting others to agree using logic instead of some emotional fallbackpedaling...maybe not :) )

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28 minutes ago, gumbydarnit said:

Not me, my if the piece moves me it gets a comment, that said I do tend to pay a little more attention to my buds, and throw a comment on a piece that I know they really enjoy but may not be in my wheel house. Now if there's the rare occasion where a collector is a questionable character, he gets the cold shoulder no matter how cool the piece.

Like people that shill bid?:cry:

Edited by Lucky Baru
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1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I find it interesting to see all these great trophy pieces, but I am never going to own any unless some of the art I currently own evolves into one in the next 15 years. Highly, highly unlikely, but not impossible. 

giphy.gif

Edited by delekkerste
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5 hours ago, The Voord said:

Problem, for me, is that CAF has been swamped over the years with too much drek (amateurish fan-boy art and sexy drawings that look anything but for the most part), that it's become difficult to trawl through to get to the good stuff. 

Isn't that the truth. Too many folks on there who think prints, "limited edition" non-original manufactured images, or badly photoshopped pictures qualify as comic art or even "art" at all in any original sense.

That along with the guys who use it for slabbed comic books (not sketch covers), it really starts to diverge from "comic art" to a great degree. 

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2 hours ago, gumbydarnit said:

Not me, my if the piece moves me it gets a comment, that said I do tend to pay a little more attention to my buds, and throw a comment on a piece that I know they really enjoy but may not be in my wheel house. 

same.  i'll post a comment or drop some likes on pieces i like - typically they are bat related.   buds of mine do get the benefit of the doubt on some of their pieces, but any of their pieces that don't really move me also don't automatically get a comment or like.

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3 hours ago, gumbydarnit said:

THE benefit of CAF is posting your art and letting the community know your interest and collection's focus and build a reputation. For example - Brian Peck is the John Buscema man and also a Jean Grey fan, if I find a page from Bizarre Adventures where JB drew a Phoenix story, I would contact him to see what he would be willing to trade for it.  Brian been around for years, active on boards so I have a good feeling things would go smoothly if we could arrive on a deal. Collectors that put themselves out there DO reap the benefits of being known as the guy who is a legit player and loves "artist X on ____ comic" He's the one to contact to raise money when you are chasing a page and need to raise money. So that is the good edge of a double edge sword. 

Those who take their stuff down, their collection focus and reputation slowly gets forgotten about, and who knows what they miss out on, when people are trying to find a home for their pages they are wishing to sell. 

Brian, no I don't have a page from that Bizarre Adventures issue... but if I did, you would know about it!

Actually, that is another reason I don’t post. I am concerned that someone who sees my idiosyncratic preferences will try to set a price which is higher than I could get it at auction or general sale. The Phantom Stranger does not attract much interest (although, more than you might think), so I am more likely to get nice pieces for less than a comparable Batman or Spider-man. Since I don’t sell, financial appreciation is irrelevant.

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2 hours ago, grapeape said:

Grapeape has been reading all these comments and I think it was a timely thread. Wow we collectors are facing some challenges moving forward to 2020 and beyond. Okay in no particular order this is what I came up with after enjoying all your thoughtful comments.
 

The Auction Houses:

HA put on a powerful display of artwork this last auction. Some of the best collected art in one spot that I have ever witnessed. In fact I declared Comic-Link dead and buried and out of my life. Irrelevant. Unable to compete. 20% BP is tough to swallow but I warn you enjoy it while it lasts. The days are coming where HA will test us by raising BP to 25 or 30%. To stop the “how the hell do you know this?” I’ll just put the obligatory IMHO here to ward off demands of proof. I just believe the values are rising and rising and HA will have the nerve to test us because they have the swagger when it comes to achieving record prices.

Comic-Link...dead? Not so fast my friends. It’s great to have competition, no matter how small. C-Link did have some very nice art this last auction. 10% commission taxes to the seller (reasonable) and no BP. How long can C-Link get away with that? I honestly believe it’s one of their best selling points to say bring your art and comics to us! Buy art and comics from us.

Profiles in History:facepalm: Okay this is what you were waiting for. For grapeape to destroy this fee hungry, complicated to figure out PIH bidding process, fees, shipping and all the rest.

Nah! It ain’t gonna happen. Here we go I thought a lot about this. I’ve known Joe since the nineties. He’s very good at what he does. He isn’t new to comic art either. He has an awesome personal collection and PIH used to sell comic art online and at SDCC awhile back.

The Distinguished Collector Approach was awesome! Admit it. Frankenstein. Multiple Ditko. Complete Kirby Thor and Byrne FF. I found every lot fascinating.

OK some confusion even for me I’ll admit it. BP 0-28% WTF does that mean? 9.5 % sales tax to pick up the art in person?

OK I was frustrated. Can PIH do a better job in the future? Yes and here’s how.

First off guys all the fees were disclosed.  It took 3 phone calls and reading but I knew what I was doing come auction day. 28% was only if you bid online which most of us like to do. That’s because I-collector gets a cut for hosting online. That’s a problem. That’s a killer. PIH should fall in line with HA and have an auction system that reflects actual price with bid and BP calculated in the bidding screen.

But they probably won’t and Here’s  why.

$1,000,000
 

PIH likely not going to try and compete with HA. This was a one off auction and Im sure we’ll see another Distinguished Collector down the line because of the re$ults.

OK 28% if you used online.

20% if you bid with PIH directly.

Huh? 
 

I know I know but hear me out.

Floor bidding! 20%

“Oh come on grapeape! I’m in New York. I’m not flying out to Beverly Hills to bid on the Kirby Silver Star!”

I hear you. Huge advantage for me living in So Cal. Never the less it is an option.

Absentee bidding!!! 20% Ok this was the best option if you took the time to figure this out. There is an online form on PIH where you could choose lot number, write description and put your max bid in for each lot. Less friendly then clicking your bid button on the computer but it’s all about the Benjamin’s so there you go.

Shipping, handling, state tax fees and storage fees. Wonky yes but not foreign to the art collecting world. This was a very challenging aspect of dealing with won items and I hear your frustration. I don’t believe PIH will change that part for us comic art collectors. They have a business model that is extremely effective for them.

What are you saying grapeape?

Ok next time around we’ll all be more prepared for a Distinguished Collector auction. With preparation ahead of time we can choose the best options and have a happier experience.

Props to PIH for getting that much nice stuff to market. Rob Pistella gave a great tip off just before auction. He predicted records set and great bargains. For buyers this was great. For sellers yes, $1,000,000 so happy overall but was it wise to list six ASM Ditko pages at once? It worked for the buyers as the 5 character pages(no Spidey) were in the 20 K sold range and the action page did go for $75 K.(BP not included)

A complete Kirby Thor story for $75 K?I’d be thrilled as a buyer and pissed as a seller.

Anyways, grapeape this is a thread about CAF and wether we should even bother to post for various reasons. Why auction house talk?

OK I have another post coming that will tie this all together. I think this year brought a lot of joy and excitement with some of the best art come to market.

i also think there is a lot of anxiety concerning:

Valuations, state of future values, collapse or meteoric rise? Fees, security, rudeness and unsolicited offers for posted art work and so on.

Give grapeape time to gather my thoughts. The auction houses are a big influence on what we are feeling right now. CAF is an extremely valuable recording of comic art around the world. Art for art sake. For the love of art.

Bartering, making offers, comparing values etc is a part of it. But CAF was made to be an experience for art lovers. It can be meditative, a quiet and visual taking in of an artists soul. 
 

More to come. My boss just walked over and looked at my open copy of the Heritage Catalog, sighed and walked away. I want to scream at him. “I’m grapeape you fool!!!! And there are Kirby’s in that “kids book.”

K I R B Y

 

Amazing post.  This is the Iliad and Odyssey combined of the OA section, hats off.

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I agree with grapeape on the NFS tags. I just took delivery of three pieces from 2dgalleries that were not listed as for sale. For 2 pieces the guy just hadn't bothered thinking about selling them and here I was with an offer, so sure. In the third I had to work a bit harder. In the end I paid through the nose a bit but the art was delivered yesterday.

And how many pieces do you see listed FS with a price, but then notice they were added to the site in 2011. Some people don't update their galleries, including when their tastes may have changed. 

 

Edited by cstojano
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1 hour ago, grapeape said:

But, wouldn’t you want to get that email offering mad money? Even if you ultimately turn it down? I sure as heck would.

Not me. I've found as soon as a piece of art is equated to money by somebody else (assuming a rich offer), my mind switches over to that same thinking.

The price tag is now perma-attached.

Don't most of have one piece or another (or a few hundred ;) ) that will simply never be sold while we are alive?

I do.

For those true keepers - I don't want to know your pricetag, mine is already priceless and by definition unquantifiable.

1 hour ago, grapeape said:

I never keep more than 2-3 pieces of art in my home at one time. The rest is vault protected.

That's different. I submit that very few collectors could stand having immediate access limited to but 2-3 pieces at a time.

Perhaps you're a fan of the M part of S&M?

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56 minutes ago, vodou said:

Not me. I've found as soon as a piece of art is equated to money by somebody else (assuming a rich offer), my mind switches over to that same thinking.

The price tag is now perma-attached.

Don't most of have one piece or another (or a few hundred ;) ) that will simply never be sold while we are alive?

I do.

For those true keepers - I don't want to know your pricetag, mine is already priceless and by definition unquantifiable.

That's different. I submit that very few collectors could stand having immediate access limited to but 2-3 pieces at a time.

Perhaps you're a fan of the M part of S&M?

I like that you have pieces you will never sell. I feel the same way. I  just think you should always hear what others think even if you’re set at never ever!

I’m not a man of unlimited means. I try to hold what I love and fight for whatever else I want without involving those pieces.

However there still are art pieces out there that I desire. If some kook offers me a price I never in my wildest dreams imagined combined with an opportunity to obtain a piece I never believed would be in reach—-I want to entertain that offer.

The power is in my hands. I can always always say no.

 

 

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"tell me my piece isn’t that great but you’ll take it off my hands at your lowball price. I’m not selling and I think my art is great or else I wouldn’t have posted it."

 

These are the ones I find most annoying and were the straw that broke the camel's back.  Having someone say "You have several other examples of the character and this one is not that great.  the only reason I am interested in it is for nostalgia and I'm not even sure I want it but if the price were right I would take it"

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