Ditko IS Amazing! 0

[1950's war comics]

a MUST HAVE book for any Spidey fanatic ........

[The Voord]

Just to avoid any further confusion, as per my exchanges with Glen Gold (with whom I think we were talking at odds with one another) . . .

Ditko's photocopied artwork for ASM # 31 is pencils only (no inks) . . . with a mixture of pages with and without lettering in place.  That suggested to me that whoever at the time made the copies of Ditko's pencilled art wanted to make a visual record of pencils 'before and after' lettering was in place (over the course of the whole book).

Someone recently posted (possibly on this forum . . . I can't quite remember) that he was of the impression that Ditko was handing-in fully-inked pages of art prior to lettering.

My point was that the existence of these copies dictates otherwise.  Ditko was inking his art after lettering had been applied

I wasn't even talking about the 'Marvel Method'.  I know what the Marvel Method entailed (trust me, I've been doing the OA bit a long time)..

In any case, did the 'Marvel Method' actually apply to Steve Ditko at the point in time of ASM #31?  My understanding was that Ditko wasn't even talking much to Lee, if at all?  

As such, perhaps Lee was following the 'Ditko Method' . . . where Stevie-boy did his own storytelling and handed-over his pages to a 'smiley one' editor who was tasked with coming up with, "Some snazzy dialog (as was his 'thing') . . . "

Edited December 21, 2019 by The Voord

[glendgold]

18 minutes ago, The Voord said:

Just to avoid any further confusion, as per my exchanges with Glen Gold (with whom I think we were talking at odds with one another) . . .

Ditko's photocopied artwork for ASM # 31 is pencils only (no inks) . . . with a mixture of pages with and without lettering in place.  That suggested to me that whoever at the time made the copies of Ditko's pencilled art wanted to make a visual record of pencils 'before and after' lettering was in place (over the course of the whole book).

Someone recently posted (possibly on this forum . . . I can't quite remember) that he was of the impression that Ditko was handing-in fully-inked pages of art prior to lettering.

My point was that the existence of these copies dictates otherwise.  Ditko was inking his art after lettering had been applied

I wasn't even talking about the 'Marvel Method'.  I know what the Marvel Method entailed (trust me, I've been doing the OA bit a long time)..

In any case, did the 'Marvel Method' actually apply to Steve Ditko at the point in time of ASM #31?  My understanding was that Ditko wasn't even talking much to Lee, if at all?  

As such, perhaps Lee was following the 'Ditko Method' . . . where Stevie-boy did his own storytelling and handed-over his pages to a 'smiley one' editor who was tasked with coming up with, "Some snazzy dialog (as was his 'thing') . . . "

Right. Agree.  I think we were cross talking or whatever you call it - I didn't know about the argument that Ditko handed in inked pages. I'm intrigued by those dialogue balloon numbers, but can't really read the pages clearly enough to make any sort of guess as to, oh, y'know, who was generating text for those. This is really cool to see.

[vodou]

best price I've found: https://www.instocktrades.com/TP/Marvel/DITKO-IS-AMAZING-KING-SIZE-HC/JUN191036

[bluechip]

11 hours ago, vodou said:

Nah. Paying for things in advance is so 20th century; there's student grants and loans for this

I hope they decide to swap stale old Ditko for fresh activist Shepard Fairey.

(cuz I'd like to swap in the opposite direction )

I went to college in the 20th Century and my kids went in the 21st.  It was easy for me and for most everybody else to work or borrow your way through.   Today it is well nigh impossible for most kids to get through college without crippling debt.  But on the plus side, in the 20th Century we didn't have billionaire loan sharks sticking it to kids, with loans guaranteed by the government, and even having the power to make policies to keep it that way. 

 

[tv horror]

5 hours ago, vodou said:

best price I've found: https://www.instocktrades.com/TP/Marvel/DITKO-IS-AMAZING-KING-SIZE-HC/JUN191036

And don't forget that Ditko's Dr Strange volume is coming early next year.

 

[FoggyNelson]

Cool book🆒Voord‼️Thanks for showing everybody 👍

[mking78]

Thanks for this thread and heads up, and thanks to vodou for the steer to instocktrade.  They are 30% cheaper than Amazon, and actually shipped my oversize book in real packing, arriving in mint condition.  Took me two iterations with Amazon to get my FF Galactus Saga book without bent corners.

This Spidey oversize book is a collectable treasure, really a must own for any Ditko fan.   And the fact it reprints original art to AF 15 and some pencils to another book really makes its mention here in the original art forum appropriate.   Looking at the "Kirby is Fantastic" book, but do I really need FF 25, 26, 52, 53, and Annual 6 in the large format?  Nope, and I especially don't need any Kirby featuring the "birth of Franklin."  For gosh sakes, how about FF 51, simply one of the best comic stories ever. Ever. Icing on the cake to the three historic issues that it followed.  Should have been included in the Galactus Saga book, its really a part of that story arc.

The Kirby downslide at the end of his FF run was opposite his early work peaking in the 70 numbered books.  Going to reference my Thor Omnibus to see if I want the "Kirby is Mighty" oversize..that might be one to buy.  And coming out in Spring is a Steranko oversize...already going UP in price on Amazon.  Since Steranko cannot seem to get his IDW Vol. 2 book(s) to print 7 years after solicitation, this one might end up a true collectable.  There has to be a story behind that epic publication fail.  Hope to hear it someday here.

 

[vodou]

11 hours ago, mking78 said:

and actually shipped my oversize book in real packing

Yes! The packing is worth more than the price imo, but you usually get the best price there too.

At the other end of the spectrum...

Midtown Comics: I'll never, ever, ever do business with you again. Why?

Terms like this:

Returns and refunds:

• Due to the collectibility of the comics and merchandise we sell, we are unable to accept returns on comic books, back issues, and books. If you are uncertain about the grade of your comic book, please review our Grading Glossary, which details how Midtown Comics grades all comics. While we do not grade our graphic novels, books and magazines, and they are stored and handled with great care, no guarantee of condition is made. Over time, shelf wear and small cosmetic dings and dents may be possible. If you still feel you’ve received a damaged or mis-shipped item, please contact us at info@midtowncomics.com and we can look into this. Please be aware that we need to be contacted within two weeks of the delivery date of an order to resolve any potential order issues.

Followed by this:

Disputes:

• By purchasing from Midtowncomics.com, you consent to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of New York City, in the state of New York.
• Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to any purchase from Midtown Comics, Midtown Comics Online, Inc., or midtowncomics.com shall be settled by arbitration administered by the American Arbitration Association in accordance with its Commercial or other Arbitration Rules, rather than in court, and judgment on the award rendered by the arbitrator(s) may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof.  You agree that the location of the arbitration will be New York City, in the State of New York.
• Midtown Comics reserves the right to reject orders and or terminate/suspend accounts of individuals for any reason and at its sole and absolute discretion, including those of individuals who are inappropriate/abusive in their calls and messages. 

all from: https://www.midtowncomics.com/terms-of-use

Those terms essentially mean: We'll ship your stuff in whatever condition it happens to be in and however we want and you can't do nuthin' about it, except take us to the Arbiter of our choice with a filing fee of $925 right to start and many more fees to follow.

It's called Forced Arbitration and it's buried in the Terms & Conditions of most everything we do these days, all to remove your right to sue in small claims court for small issues worth less than $925

Oh, you might wonder, is that how instocktrades handles things too? No.

Q) What do I do if something is missing/damaged from my shipment?

A) Please notify us by e-mail within 48 hours of receipt of your shipment and we will be happy to replace your missing/damaged item(s). Notifying us within 48 hours will help us to obtain replacement items.

from https://www.instocktrades.com/service.aspx

That's it. No Forced Arbitration opt-in just by using the site. Nice, huh? And having had minor issues with both companies, I can tell you that instocktrades respects your current business and wants your future business; Midtown Comics...well, they will let you return their already damaged inventory (not in transit) at your own cost or...take it to arbitration, baby

[vodou]

Addendum: $58 vs $85 (and out of stock too!)

[Prince Namor]

On 12/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, The Voord said:

Just to avoid any further confusion, as per my exchanges with Glen Gold (with whom I think we were talking at odds with one another) . . .

Ditko's photocopied artwork for ASM # 31 is pencils only (no inks) . . . with a mixture of pages with and without lettering in place.  That suggested to me that whoever at the time made the copies of Ditko's pencilled art wanted to make a visual record of pencils 'before and after' lettering was in place (over the course of the whole book).

Someone recently posted (possibly on this forum . . . I can't quite remember) that he was of the impression that Ditko was handing-in fully-inked pages of art prior to lettering.

My point was that the existence of these copies dictates otherwise.  Ditko was inking his art after lettering had been applied

I wasn't even talking about the 'Marvel Method'.  I know what the Marvel Method entailed (trust me, I've been doing the OA bit a long time)..

In any case, did the 'Marvel Method' actually apply to Steve Ditko at the point in time of ASM #31?  My understanding was that Ditko wasn't even talking much to Lee, if at all?  

As such, perhaps Lee was following the 'Ditko Method' . . . where Stevie-boy did his own storytelling and handed-over his pages to a 'smiley one' editor who was tasked with coming up with, "Some snazzy dialog (as was his 'thing') . . . "

By issue #31 of ASM, pencils were brought in (with margin notes) and gone over for any editorial changes (which would be added to the margin notes). Photocopies were made so that during the inking process, the dialogue could be written and then that would be penciled and inked. (And also for archiving/editorial and referencing purposes)

Ditko did NOT like to be edited by Lee and so by that time, they were not talking, but the pages would still have to be photocopied for scripting before he could take them home and finish them.

Kirby took Marvel's for a long time. Wood for a short time. But Ditko forced Lee/Marvel's hand into giving him almost full control of two comics that are among the most successful and unique works ever created in mainstream comics.

The confusion over how all this works comes from Stan's December 1965 interview with New York Herald Tribune (the same disastrous one where Kirby is made to look bad), where he said, "I don't plot Spider-man anymore. Steve Ditko, the artist, has been doing the stories. I guess I'll leave him alone until sales start to slip. Since Spidey got so popular, Ditko thinks he's the genius of the world. We were arguing so much over plot lines, I told him to start making up his own stories. He won't let anyone else ink his drawings either. He just drops off his finished pages with notes in the margins and I fill in the dialogue. I never know what he'll come up with next."

This is December of 1965, around the time of ASM #34 coming it out. Now it is possible... if you look at those books that came out in Ditko's last few months, from #34 on... that Ditko DID just start turning in his completed art. Those books are less edited and less 'Marvel' than some of his previous work... but obviously with #31, at that time, he was still submitting his pencils for editorial approval, even if him and Stan weren't plotting or even talking. 

So the confusion over this comes from, the evolving process of how it worked, and when it changed (IF it changed that way). I wonder if there are any pencil copies from those later Ditko issues?

Hope that helps!

[The Voord]

4 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

1. . .  but the pages would still have to be photocopied for scripting before he could take them home and finish them.

2 . . . I wonder if there are any pencil copies from those later Ditko issues?

 

1.  The full book of pencils, featured in Ditko is Amazing, show a mixture of lettered and un-lettered pages.  My take on that is that Ditko handed his art in for the dialogue/lettering to be added BEFORE commencing inking the drawings.  As we can see from this example:

2.  I've seen a copy of Ditko's pencilled splash page to ASM # 38 out there.

And as a side-note, Lee once claimed to have come up with the idea for the opening sequence of ASM # 33, where Spidey spends several pages mustering-up the strength and will-power to free himself from the massive weight of machinery pinning him down.  Ditko himself proved Lee to be taking false credit on that one . . .

Edited January 27, 2020 by The Voord

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

1.  The full book of pencils, featured in Ditko is Amazing, show a mixture of lettered and un-lettered pages.  My take on that is that Ditko handed his art in for the dialogue/lettering to be added BEFORE commencing inking the drawings.  As we can see from this example:

I think so too. I imagine part of the problem is that Steve stopped coming in to have his layouts approved, and instead brought them in with finished story for lettering before he took them home to ink. Stan wouldn't have been too fond of that.

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

2.  I've seen a copy of Ditko's pencilled splash page to ASM # 38 out there.

And as a side-note, Lee once claimed to have come up with the idea for the opening sequence of ASM # 33, where Spidey spends several pages mustering-up the strength and will-power to free himself from the massive weight of machinery pinning him down.  Ditko himself proved Lee to be taking false credit on that one . . .

I suspect... and the new 'Lee & Kirby: Stuff Said' book from Twomorrows Publishing has been a great source of the timeline... I think Spidey freeing himself from that machinery was an allegory for Ditko breaking the chains with what he felt were Marvel (and Stan) holding him down. Peter Parker also strong arms JJJ for more picture money later in the issue and JJJ thinks, "When did this kid wise up?"

#34 through his final issue #38, is a different comic than what we've previously read. Ditko had taken over completely. He probably felt he needed to before quitting.