Pedigree? Ohio? Update: Yes 1 1

[RedGiant]

I picked up a really nice looking Power Comics 4 in another companies slab. Sending to CGC for new slab, but not currently listed as pedigree. The marking in the ‘O’ in Power looks very distinctive though. Thoughts on possibly being an Ohio copy?

Edited December 28, 2019 by RedGiant

[RedGiant]

Looks like a non-color breaking crease down center as well, which I understand is associated with Ohio copies. Cracked it out of slab.

Edited December 21, 2019 by RedGiant

[adamstrange]

It's possible.  The arrival date is in the realm of possibility.  Ohio's from that time period should have beautiful gloss and pages.

[Timely]

Looks very possible! Ohio Copies generally have fresh off-white to white pages and nice colors to the cover. They have a distinct smell (that to me smells like blue cheese!).

Edited December 21, 2019 by Timely

[Straw-Man]

1 hour ago, Timely said:

Looks very possible! Ohio Copies generally have fresh off-white to white pages and nice colors to the cover. They have a distinct smell (that to me smells like blue cheese!).

like g.a.tor’s breath?   is he from ohio ?????

[RedGiant]

1 hour ago, Timely said:

Looks very possible! Ohio Copies generally have fresh off-white to white pages and nice colors to the cover. They have a distinct smell (that to me smells like blue cheese!).

Thanks for weighing in. You’d know way better than me. Wish I had smelled it before packing it up - it’s en route to Sarasota. We will see what they think. 

[RedGiant]

Just got grade from CGC, looks like they designated it Ohio.  Add to that it is the highest graded copy at 9.0.  There used to be a 9.2 Edgar Church, but that is now in a 8.0 slab.  Looking forward to getting this book in hand.

[Badger]

59 minutes ago, RedGiant said:

Just got grade from CGC, looks like they designated it Ohio.  Add to that it is the highest graded copy at 9.0.  There used to be a 9.2 Edgar Church, but that is now in a 8.0 slab.  Looking forward to getting this book in hand.

Ouch! Somebody tried to destroy history!

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, RedGiant said:

Just got grade from CGC, looks like they designated it Ohio.  Add to that it is the highest graded copy at 9.0.  There used to be a 9.2 Edgar Church, but that is now in a 8.0 slab.  Looking forward to getting this book in hand.

This 7.5 Church used to be a 9.2, so it can happen. With this one, the covers stuck to the inner well while the interior slid to the right. Note the tearing at the upper staple. Unfortunately, some books were not very snug in older slabs. (I have no idea whether that's what happened with the Power no. 4; maybe somebody tried to press it and blew the spine.)

[RedGiant]

Ouch, that’s sad.  Not sure what happened to the Power 4 Church but heritage had a 9.2, then a number of years later a 8.0 and the 9.2 is out of the census, so I don’t think there were 2 copies. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by RedGiant

[manetteska]

On 12/20/2019 at 6:58 PM, RedGiant said:

I picked up a really nice looking Power Comics 4 in another companies slab. Sending to CGC for new slab, but not currently listed as pedigree. The marking in the ‘O’ in Power looks very distinctive though. Thoughts on possibly being an Ohio copy?

Considering the other company, you got lucky. Did you think it was an Ohio before bidding?

[RedGiant]

1 minute ago, manetteska said:

Considering the other company, you got lucky. Did you think it was an Ohio before bidding?

Nope. I was just hoping it wasn’t restored or missing pages since it was PGX. 

[manetteska]

7 minutes ago, RedGiant said:

Nope. I was just hoping it wasn’t restored or missing pages since it was PGX. 

Exactly. If you opened it to count pages and one was missing, would you have been able to return it? Considering it was no longer in the case. 

[RedGiant]

30 minutes ago, manetteska said:

Exactly. If you opened it to count pages and one was missing, would you have been able to return it? Considering it was no longer in the case. 

No guarantee but I had made an arrangement with seller before I bid. If they held up their end of the bargain, who knows. But it’s moot now (luckily).  Never thought I’d pay good money for a pgx book, but couldn’t pass it up. 

[lou_fine]

On 12/21/2019 at 7:40 AM, RedGiant said:

Thanks for weighing in. You’d know way better than me. Wish I had smelled it before packing it up - it’s en route to Sarasota. We will see what they think. 

 

6 hours ago, RedGiant said:

Just got grade from CGC, looks like they designated it Ohio.

Are you being serious or just trying to pull our leg here?  

How in the world did you managed this.........have a book shipped out and graded in less than a week with both a weekend and Christmas break in there to boot?   

I thought the standard was months in order for CGC to get this type of book graded.  

Edited December 28, 2019 by lou_fine

[RedGiant]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

 

Are you being serious or just trying to pull our leg here?  

How in the world did you managed this.........have a book shipped out and graded in less than a week with both a weekend and Christmas break in there to boot?   

I thought the standard was months in order for CGC to get this type of book graded.  

I didn’t expect a grade this week - I thought CGC was closed until Monday?  But I’ll take it.

[Cat-Man_America]

6 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

This 7.5 Church used to be a 9.2, so it can happen. With this one, the covers stuck to the inner well while the interior slid to the right. Note the tearing at the upper staple. Unfortunately, some books were not very snug in older slabs. (I have no idea whether that's what happened with the Power no. 4; maybe somebody tried to press it and blew the spine.)

I’m familiar with that copy.  John Verzyl brought it to me for my consideration at one point four or five years ago, but I noticed the spine tear immediately, and even though it was in a 9.2 holder I realized it would take a precipitous drop from the damage.  Poor John was hoping for a sale as I was in the market for high grade Cat-Man, but this copy lost my interest immediately.  Truly sad what happened here.  It used to be in one of CGCs earliest holders and the innerwell apparently lacked sufficient protection from loose books sliding around within the holder.  Apparently the cover gripped the outer shell and the interior contents slid pulling the staple loose from the cover.

[lou_fine]

6 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

14 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

This 7.5 Church used to be a 9.2, so it can happen. With this one, the covers stuck to the inner well while the interior slid to the right. Note the tearing at the upper staple. Unfortunately, some books were not very snug in older slabs. (I have no idea whether that's what happened with the Power no. 4; maybe somebody tried to press it and blew the spine.)

I’m familiar with that copy.  John Verzyl brought it to me for my consideration at one point four or five years ago, but I noticed the spine tear immediately, and even though it was in a 9.2 holder I realized it would take a precipitous drop from the damage.  Poor John was hoping for a sale as I was in the market for high grade Cat-Man, but this copy lost my interest immediately.  Truly sad what happened here.  It used to be in one of CGCs earliest holders and the innerwell apparently lacked sufficient protection from loose books sliding around within the holder.  Apparently the cover gripped the outer shell and the interior contents slid pulling the staple loose from the cover.

Extremely sad to hear stories like this, especially when it's on a truly HTF GA book like this Catman #26 here, let alone one that is a Church pedigree highest graded copy.  

Reminds me a bit about the much rumoured and yet to be confirmed CGC 9.9 graded copy of Hulk 181 that apparently ended up with a rather severe case of SCS damage and would supposedly be lucky to grade in the 9's if ever sent back in for grading again.  Definitely not in the same league as a Catman in terms of scarcity, but at something like $150K paid for the book, that is a whole ton of serious financial damage if true.    

I assume Verzyl or whoever the owner was at the time must have decided that leaving it in that holder would just end up causing more damage to the book over time.  

[Cat-Man_America]

34 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Extremely sad to hear stories like this, especially when it's on a truly HTF GA book like this Catman #26 here, let alone one that is a Church pedigree highest graded copy.  

Reminds me a bit about the much rumoured and yet to be confirmed CGC 9.9 graded copy of Hulk 181 that apparently ended up with a rather severe case of SCS damage and would supposedly be lucky to grade in the 9's if ever sent back in for grading again.  Definitely not in the same league as a Catman in terms of scarcity, but at something like $150K paid for the book, that is a whole ton of serious financial damage if true.    

I assume Verzyl or whoever the owner was at the time must have decided that leaving it in that holder would just end up causing more damage to the book over time.  

John had the book re-holdered shortly after the discovery, sadly resulting in the drop in grade.  Apparently the damage occurred during normal transit.  He'd picked up the Church copy in high grade with other books and brought them by Casa del Gato for me to look through.  

The book was in one of the earliest CGC holders.  Neither of us were aware of any problem with that design.  I discovered the problem and pointed it out to John.  He was shocked and surprised by it.  Based on what I was observing, there was no envelope or physical barrier in place to prevent a book from sliding around in the inner well. This wasn't an anticipatable risk, because most of the time books appear to be clamped or inside a close fitting Barex envelope.  I have no idea when the inner envelope was introduced to the early label holders, probably within the first year or two, but earlier encapsulated books apparently floated freely in the inner well presumably held in place by the inner surface of the well and that's where the increased risk comes into play.  

While I like early CGC labels and the MkII second series labels, I'd suggest to all owners of books with the earliest style labels examine their books closely to determine how they're secured inside the inner well.  Those that are held in place by the under surface but otherwise float freely within the inner well are at risk ...especially for damage in transit... if there's a gap between books and the right/left sides of the inner well.  Single staple WWII books are especially vulnerable.  To reiterate: what can happen is that interior pages can yield to gravitational forces moving from side to side while covers are held in place by modest top/bottom pressure, resulting in serious staple pulls.  That's how a 9.2 can morph into a 7.5, ...and Church books aren't immune!

[jimbo_7071]

4 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

John had the book re-holdered shortly after the discovery, sadly resulting in the drop in grade.  Apparently the damage occurred during normal transit.  He'd picked up the Church copy in high grade with other books and brought them by Casa del Gato for me to look through.  

The book was in one of the earliest CGC holders.  Neither of us were aware of any problem with that design.  I discovered the problem and pointed it out to John.  He was shocked and surprised by it.  Based on what I was observing, there was no envelope or physical barrier in place to prevent a book from sliding around in the inner well. This wasn't an anticipatable risk, because most of the time books appear to be clamped or inside a close fitting Barex envelope.  I have no idea when the inner envelope was introduced to the early label holders, probably within the first year or two, but earlier encapsulated books apparently floated freely in the inner well presumably held in place by the inner surface of the well and that's where the increased risk comes into play.  

While I like early CGC labels and the MkII second series labels, I'd suggest to all owners of books with the earliest style labels examine their books closely to determine how they're secured inside the inner well.  Those that are held in place by the under surface but otherwise float freely within the inner well are at risk ...especially for damage in transit... if there's a gap between books and the right/left sides of the inner well.  Single staple WWII books are especially vulnerable.  To reiterate: what can happen is that interior pages can yield to gravitational forces moving from side to side while covers are held in place by modest top/bottom pressure, resulting in serious staple pulls.  That's how a 9.2 can morph into a 7.5, ...and Church books aren't immune!

It was an old label holder, but it couldn't have been too early. It was slabbed for the Nic Cage auction that took place in October of 2002.