Bronze Age 9.8's 3 3

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, Xenosmilus said:

6 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

There is a tremendous difference between early to mid bronze (1970-1975) and late bronze (1975-1980) in 9.8.

Let me rephrase what I was asking to make my point. If an early / mid bronze age book becomes Hot that wasn't before in the past would you expect to see a lot of new 9.8's get graded?

For pre-1975, no. They don't exist, which was the point being made in subsequent posts. For 1975-up books, sure.

[Xenosmilus]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

which was the point being made in subsequent posts

Sorry there was a lot of carp I didn't want scroll through 

[RockMyAmadeus]

38 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

I meant the other GL's besides the 76. I originally had GL76 as one of the 2 obvious ones ahead of Avengers 93 in my first post that RMA was responding to. It absolutely belongs on any Adams top 10 list. Tec 411 I can see being top 10 and Supes 233 definitely, can't believe that RMA and I didn't think of that one. But even if I had to kick books like Bats 234 out, I'd still put Avengers 93 in my top 10. 

I'd put 'Tec #400 in there above Avengers #93, too. But the GLs are classics, and as you can see from subs...quite a bit more popular.

Supes #233...ehhh...I dunno, I have a hard enough time with Bats #227. But the lunatics have driven it up, so there you go.

Frankly, Avengers #93 suffers from being a weirdo Nov '71 book, and the cover is so-so. 

[LordRahl]

31 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I'd put 'Tec #400 in there above Avengers #93, too. But the GLs are classics, and as you can see from subs...quite a bit more popular.

Supes #233...ehhh...I dunno, I have a hard enough time with Bats #227. But the lunatics have driven it up, so there you go.

Frankly, Avengers #93 suffers from being a weirdo Nov '71 book, and the cover is so-so. 

Ahhh, I love the cover to Avengers 93 but then I'm kinda partial to the PF books.

[namisgr]

3 hours ago, Xenosmilus said:

Let me rephrase what I was asking to make my point. If an early / mid bronze age book becomes Hot that wasn't before in the past would you expect to see a lot of new 9.8's get graded?

I would venture to guess 'no', especially for books from the tough 1970-1972 period.  CGC has been grading these for a full 20 years now.  There is still only a single Avengers #93 in the census, and only two copies of Green Lantern #76.  The same two 9.8 copies for some less highly valued books, like Fantastic Four #120 and only a single Hulk #145.  There are zero 9.8s of Iron Man #44 (and only 6 in 9.6).  If there are only a few copies of a given early BA issue in 9.8 shape now, I don't think a bunch would magically appear if a comic became a hot issue.  But for books after that time period, ultra high grade copies are typically far more common (think 46 copies of Hulk #180 graded in 9.8 and published in 1974), and so if a formerly undervalued issue suddenly became much more valuable, it's possible a fair number of new 9.8 graded copies could hit the census.

In ranking BA for value, Avengers #93 still is high on the list.  It can't compete with Marvel Spotlight #5, which has gone for nearly $50K in 9.8 condition.  But it's a $2K+ book in 9.6, and if the lone 9.8 ever came up for sale I would expect it to fetch at least $20K.  And it's got such great story and art.  There's an Adams/Palmer page of original art from the ish being auctioned now on Heritage, and it's going to go for good money (the bidding's at $7.5K now with a few days left in the auction, including the live portion).

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by namisgr

[FlyingDonut]

35 minutes ago, namisgr said:

I would venture to guess 'no', especially for books from the tough 1970-1972 period.  CGC has been grading these for a full 20 years now.  There is still only a single Avengers #93 in the census, and only two copies of Green Lantern #76.  The same two 9.8 copies for some less highly valued books, like Fantastic Four #120 and only a single Hulk #145.  There are zero 9.8s of Iron Man #44 (and only 6 in 9.6).  If there are only a few copies of a given early BA issue in 9.8 shape now, I don't think a bunch would magically appear if a comic became a hot issue.  But for books after that time period, ultra high grade copies are typically far more common (think 46 copies of Hulk #180 graded in 9.8 and published in 1974), and so if a formerly undervalued issue suddenly became much more valuable, it's possible a fair number of new 9.8 graded copies could hit the census.

In ranking BA for value, Avengers #93 still is high on the list.  It can't compete with Marvel Spotlight #5, which has gone for nearly $50K in 9.8 condition.  But it's a $2K+ book in 9.6, and if the lone 9.8 ever came up for sale I would expect it to fetch at least $20K.  And it's such a great comic.  There's an Adams/Palmer page of original art from the ish being auctioned now on Heritage, and it's going to go for good money (the bidding's at $7.5K now with a few days left in the auction, including the live portion).

 

And, even when my idiocy drives the prices through the roof on them, no more come out of the woodwork.

There are many more Fantastic Four books - this title I know pretty well - in 9.8 in the 75-100 run available then there are in the 112-130 run.

[RockMyAmadeus]

49 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

And, even when my idiocy drives the prices through the roof on them, no more come out of the woodwork.

There are many more Fantastic Four books - this title I know pretty well - in 9.8 in the 75-100 run available then there are in the 112-130 run.

You know well...the quality of the materials used for these books was just garbage. Barely a step above Charltons. You look at them sideways, and the ink flakes. 

And it does not help that nearly every Marvel from Nov 1971 to Dec 1972 had a solid color border/picture frame that cannot hide a color breaking spine tic to save your life.

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, namisgr said:

6 hours ago, Xenosmilus said:

Let me rephrase what I was asking to make my point. If an early / mid bronze age book becomes Hot that wasn't before in the past would you expect to see a lot of new 9.8's get graded?

I would venture to guess 'no', especially for books from the tough 1970-1972 period.  CGC has been grading these for a full 20 years now.  There is still only a single Avengers #93 in the census, and only two copies of Green Lantern #76.

Ahhhhh yes...............the BIG BIG headline grabbing CGC 9.8 graded copy of Green Lantern 76:

I still remember long time collectors in the hobby place had been wondering for several years if there would ever be such a thing as a CGC 9.8 graded copy of Green Lantern 76 since none had shown up after 10 long years of grading.  Especially since CGC 9.8 graded copies of all other BA keys at the time had already shown up long before then.  Still, the marketplace was shocked when this single highest graded copy at the time sold for somewhere north of $37K (top of guide at the time was only $2K), with many collectors commenting that was an insane price to pay as the book was not worth that kind of money.  

I guess their sentiments were vindicated as the book was resold a few years later in 2014 for just under $32K (top of guide at the time was now at $2,700) when it was now 1 of 2 highest graded copies.  The buyer would probably had made out alright if they had held onto the book for a couple of years longer.  Does anybody here know if the second CGC 9.8 graded copy was ever sold and if so, at what price point?  

Just wondering since I believe this big DC key and still rare in grade book should now most likely have absolutely no problems easily selling for more than its original $37K price point, considering how hot the market has been for key books over the past few years.  Especially when you see other BA keys with multiple equivalent graded copies like Marvel Spotlight 5 selling for $48,500; Werewolf by Night 32 (1 of 18 equivalent graded copies ) selling for $50K; Tomb of Dracula 10 (single highest graded copy) selling for $85K; and the 2nd highest graded copy of Marvel Super-Heroes 13 at only CGC 9.6 selling for over $31K; with all of these books selling during the past few years.  

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by lou_fine

[jimjum12]

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Bats 232

Bats 234 

Bats 227 (insane, I know)

Bats 251

GL 76

GL 85

GL 86

GL 87

X-Men 58

Avengers 93

This is a good list, but I would leave out 227 as it is simply a cover... not what I consider a Adams "book". I always felt B&B 85 was an unrecognized highpoint, as it seems to be the starting point of the GL/GA zeitgeist.... IMHO …….. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[sledgehammer]

Good lord. There are 9- 9.8 grades given for GS ASM 3, and I submitted one of them? Out of maybe 25 of my submissions ever?

Why did I sell this 10 years ago again?

 

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, namisgr said:

 There are zero 9.8s of Iron Man #44 (and only 6 in 9.6).

Iron Man 44, hmmm....................but unlike a GL 76 or a Marvel Spotlight 5, IM 44 is really nothing more than a mid-run non-key no name book in comparison.  

So, like this Iron Man 30 below (also a mid-run non-key no-name book), will it also sell for something like $15K when it was the only CGC 9.8 graded copy in the entire universe:  

 

Especially considering the fact that a second copy in the same CGC 9.8 grade surfaced the following year in 2017 and sold for only $6,300; which was then apparently followed by a third copy that ended up selling for only $3,150.  Now, that there's a fourth CGC 9.8 graded copy listed in the census, I wonder what this copy will end up selling for.    

Edited March 4, 2020 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

This is a good list, but I would leave out 227 as it is simply a cover... not what I consider a Adams "book".

I would tend to agree with this, especially since it is really a homage cover to the all-time GA classic Detective 31 cover.  

If I had the choice and the money, I would much rather just go after the original 'Tec 31 book.   

I guess I can always dream, can't I?  

Edited March 4, 2020 by lou_fine

[Gatsby77]

18 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Ahhhhh yes...............the BIG BIG headline grabbing CGC 9.8 graded copy of Green Lantern 76:

I still remember long time collectors in the hobby place had been wondering for several years if there would ever be such a thing as a CGC 9.8 graded copy of Green Lantern 76 since none had shown up after 10 long years of grading.  Especially since CGC 9.8 graded copies of all other BA keys at the time had already shown up long before then.  Still, the marketplace was shocked when this single highest graded copy at the time sold for somewhere north of $37K (top of guide at the time was only $2K), with many collectors commenting that was an insane price to pay as the book was not worth that kind of money.  

I guess their sentiments were vindicated as the book was resold a few years later in 2014 for just under $32K (top of guide at the time was now at $2,700) when it was now 1 of 2 highest graded copies.  The buyer would probably had made out alright if they had held onto the book for a couple of years longer.  Does anybody here know if the second CGC 9.8 graded copy was ever sold and if so, at what price point?  

Just wondering since I believe this big DC key and still rare in grade book should now most likely have absolutely no problems easily selling for more than its original $37K price point, considering how hot the market has been for key books over the past few years.  Especially when you see other BA keys with multiple equivalent graded copies like Marvel Spotlight 5 selling for $48,500; Werewolf by Night 32 (1 of 18 equivalent graded copies ) selling for $50K; Tomb of Dracula 10 (single highest graded copy) selling for $85K; and the 2nd highest graded copy of Marvel Super-Heroes 13 at only CGC 9.6 selling for over $31K; with all of these books selling during the past few years.  

 

Let us not forget the $30,500 paid for the CGC 9.6 copy of this book back in 2009.

Still (I believe) a record for a too-early purchase in the price-to-value category.

 

[Xenosmilus]

What about this one...

I bought it for $40 (raw) a few months back. Only 2-9.8's!

Edited March 5, 2020 by Xenosmilus

[waaaghboss]

On 3/3/2020 at 2:41 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

You're not alone in thinking that. There was a time, when Neal Adams was the hottest of the hot, that Avengers #93 was the most popular Adams book there was. It used to be THE key Bronze book to get, and went toe-to-toe with Green Lantern #76 in terms of value and demand.

Maybe it's because it's 40 pages of Adams at the very top of his game...and every single page is a masterpiece, a feast for the eyes...but it was THE book to own, and it's sad that it's fallen so far. It's hard to even put it in the top 10 Adams books now.

When was it the key BA book?  I'm now hunting down a copy, as I was never aware of this book as a kid, but love the idea of getting a formally hot book at a reasonable price.  Are there other BA books that were "keys" decades ago but slowly fell into affordability?

[divad]

On 3/3/2020 at 5:35 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

For pre-1975, no. They don't exist,

[namisgr]

A few of the comics I bought off the rack between 1972 and '76 graded out as 9.8s (and before that lofty grade began to be handed out like Halloween candy), but they were all post-1973 vintages.  The earliest stuff was handled more roughly, many were passed around to roommates for reading, and they tended to get dinged a bit traveling from college to home unbagged, unboarded, and stacked in cardboard boxes.  I had better luck getting 9.8 grades with 1972 books bought raw in the secondhand market.  

Some examples of comics bought off the rack, never pressed, that graded 9.8:

  

  

  

Edited March 5, 2020 by namisgr

[Jaydee]

On 3/3/2020 at 3:19 PM, valiantman said:

Just looking at the top "key" (most submitted) books per year:

1970	Batman 227
1970	Conan the Barbarian 1
1970	Green Lantern 76
1970	Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen 134
1971	Amazing Spider-Man 100
1971	Amazing Spider-Man 101
1971	Batman 232
1971	Fantastic Four 112
1971	House of Secrets 92
1972	All Star Western 10
1972	Marvel Spotlight 5
1973	Amazing Spider-Man 121
1973	Amazing Spider-Man 122
1973	Iron Man 55
1973	Tomb of Dracula 10
1974	Amazing Spider-Man 129
1974	Incredible Hulk 180
1974	Incredible Hulk 181
1975	Giant-Size X-Men 1
1975	Werewolf By Night 32
1975	X-Men 94
1976	All-Star Comics 58
1976	Daredevil 131
1976	Marvel Preview 4
1976	Spectacular Spider-Man 1
1976	X-Men 101
1977	Iron Fist 14
1977	Star Wars 1
1977	Star Wars 1 35 Cent Price Variant
1978	Cerebus the Aardvark 1
1978	Ms. Marvel 18
1978	Spider-Woman 1
1979	Amazing Spider-Man 194
1979	Daredevil 158
1979	Spectacular Spider-Man 27
1980	Avengers 196
1980	DC Comics Presents 26
1980	New Teen Titans 2
1980	Savage She-Hulk 1
1980	Star Wars 42
1980	X-Men 137

The percentages for CGC 9.8+ are:

1970	1.2%
1971	1.5%
1972	0.3%
1973	1.8%
1974	1.2%
1975	1.4%
1976	7.3%
1977	6.5%
1978	18.9%
1979	8.4%
1980	19.6%

 

 I need this for Golden age books (NOT JUST ELEPHANT COVERS!!!)

 

[Gatsby77]

Not for nothing, but I've been looking for NM copy of Magnus, Robot Fighter # 37 (1974) for five years now without success.

Never mind CGC 9.8, I'd pay $200 for it in CGC 9.4.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Gatsby77

[MGsimba77]

This is a good example of the boards offering useful information! Great thread and question from the OP! IH 180 has been trickling up in high grade numbers for a few years now. Slowly in 9.8 but steadily.

ASM 101 will be a decent case study. Should be interesting to see how those census numbers move