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Poll: bad idea or worst idea ever from Marvel?
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Started by Juno Beach,

161 posts in this topic

Ken Aldred

Ken Aldred

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1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

It’s more enjoyable than the junk that followed it for years after the Code.

Yup. Placing limitations on a system without themselves having much of a clue about how to operate within those newly self-imposed limitations. Quite a while before comics developed creative workarounds, and immediately post-Code the material becomes generic, uninspired and boring to read. Publishers generally seen floundering.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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1950's war comics

1950's war comics

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I started buying comics at ages 10-13 years old , this would be the early 70's , but they were nowhere near the best comics i read and and i knew it , i knew that the 1960's Marvel comics that i was only able to read because of reprints like Marvel Tales and Marvels Greatest Comics were the best comics of them all, and i also longed for comics from the 50's and even 40's but  i knew that was a pipe dream except for the few available reprints.. 

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Not A Clone

Not A Clone

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4 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

SJW doesn't have anything to do with it, there are plenty of NON-SJW comics don't sell for Marvel either. 

It does have a lot to do with it when these writers continue to openly bait readers that they know don't support their views and laugh about it openly. They are now dictating who other writers and artists are allowed to work with. Don't conform and they will get you fired. I've watched this going on for 5+ years from the outside, completely unaware of what was really happening. I just knew that after Secret Wars, a large number of the top writers and artists left Marvel. Post Secret Wars, their was suddenly a ton of terrible artwork and terrible stories. I couldn't figure out how these new writers/artists were ever hired. Marvel always took pride in having the top artists. I wasn't looking at this from any political view. I hate politics. Both sides are usually wrong lol.  

I have the entire 2 1/2 yr Jane Foster Mighty Thor run. I started buying Thor on a whim when God of Thunder came out. I kept buying it. I liked it. I don't think a lot of people that attacked that book in particular had followed the whole story, but instead only knew that Thor had lost Mijolnir and had grown tired of the trend of writers to break the heroes. I will buy this whole run again in Omnibus form whenever that happens. But, what happened when Jane became Valkyrie? It was #97 last month with 18k sales. Why? The SJW crowd that was saying what a great character Jane Foster was, stopped buying her book. It's the same writer!

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

And most of these writers see Marvel's BIGGEST SJW of all time - Stan Lee - as a great inspiration to follow. 

I really don't think they do and after listening to a lot of their interviews, they are unable to go into depth about any character's background. I really doubt that they have bothered to read or understand any of Stan's work. When Stan wrote about an injustice or issue that he felt needed to be addressed, he did it in a thought provoking way that was wrapped within a good story. 

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Fact is, everyone complains when Marvel does NOTHING different - they keep repeating the same old thing or they re-op an idea ('Spider Gwen').

Everyone complains when Marvel DOES try to do something different. They can't win.

This keeps getting re-used so much that it's laughable. They did try something different with ANAD and it failed miserably. CB Cebulski was brought and and even addresssed it. Now it's tipping right back to where they were. This isn't trying something new. It's redoing something that failed already.  So you're right about the re-op. 

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If all of the longtime readers (that Marvel seems to detest) walked away tomorrow, their publishing days would end the day after. They are fishing for an audience that they will NEVER be able to reel in and keep their attention. You say they aren't writing the comics for people that are longtime readers and that is obviously true. They blew their chances to draw in a new audience that loved the movies because the comics in the shops did not resemble the movies at all. My current weekly pull list dwindles. I've tried many of the Indy comics. I love Outcast, loved Paper Girls (yep), Wytches, and on and on. They aren't the same as the Capes & Spandex for me. I still pick up stuff from an Indy if I hear good things about it. Problem with Indy's is their release schedules are so unreliable. If I buy #4, I may have to wait 3 months for #5. Drives me crazy.

Your "Angry White Male" comments are way off base. Way to stereotype. I don't tell anyone in my life what they should or shouldn't believe, how they should look or anything like that. I'm actually VERY liberal. I don't like censorship. I grew up waving my fist at Tipper Gore (a  "liberal") and those angry mothers that wanted to sensor my Twisted Sister or (gasp) someone else's favorite, Madonna!  This was confusing, because the "liberal left" was trying to tell me what I could/couldn't listen to, while the "religious right wing " were holding CD/album/book burning bonfires. They sounded like the same thing  to me. The SJW thing is just as ridiculous. If you don't agree with them and give in to their every whim, they go bat- crazy. "Nazi/Racist" is their favorite label to throw around along with "Angry White Male". They are anything, but liberal. They are much closer to fascists. I merely want to see comics continue to come out that will sell. Why? I don't own a shop so why should I care? I like going to the shop (sometimes multiple times a week). I want to be able to continue to read comics for as long as possible. I realize there is a back-issue bin catalog that is larger than I would probably ever be able to get through available to me now. That's not the same as going to the LCS every week to pick up new comics. This has NOTHING to do with control (another SJW favorite to throw out if you dare to disagree), unless you somehow like watching something that you enjoy shoot itself in the foot after dousing the house with gasoline and lighting a match at the same time, all while thumbing their nose and laughing at your reaction to it happening. For the record, I like Spider-Gwen (aka Ghost-Spider), I own every issue, I think Ms Marvel is a good character (own a short box of her first 2 runs), I like Miles (own every issue). They sell like though. Look at the Feb 2020 sales on Comichron for ongoing titles:

No ongoing SJW titles in top 50. There are 4 characters from the Avengers movies here that can't break into the top 50 along with Miles and Spider-Gwen who were in a #1 animated movie. Popular characters still require good writing and artwork. Same as it's always been.

50-Captain Marvel (30,579) - An average number by today's low standards

60-Captain America (27,929) - by Ta-Nehisi Coates. Down 7,000 from 2018 just prior to his run. 

67-Miles Morales (25,855) - I own every issue of Miles, not a good run and has lost 10k sales in 1 year. But I stick with it hoping it gets better.

76-Dr Strange (23,126)-by Mark Waid. Has written many great things, but burned so many readers with his attacks, that this one continues to fall.

84-Black Cat (21,725) - Art Germ covers are keeping this alive. It's just not good. As a Spidey fanatic it makes me sad that her first ongoing is so bad.

89-Nebula (20,663)- This is a 1st issue and it lands at #89! And this is who they have writing X-Men Children of the Atom. Vita Ayala is a terrible writer. SJW's insist she is great, but won't support her with their own money, lol.

97-Vakylrie Jane Foster (18,292) - I guess they don't love Jane as much as they said they did.

100-Ghost Spider (17,618) - Even a new code-name and including her into the 616 universe didn't pump sales. For some reason I still buy it thinking they will change.

105-Amazing Mary Jane(17,145) - Yanked her out of ASM for this junk and turned it into an ongoing because "It's a smash hit". Um, ok. ASM had a good thing going, before 2 Event crossovers and pulling her from ASM for this slowed the story to a slow walk. ASM is finally picking back up. 

113-Morbius(16,167) - Once again using Vita Ayala for another one of her "smash success" stories. 

123-Black Panther (14,639)-by Ta-Nehisi Coates. How is he allowed to continue writing this? I stopped reading half-way through this run. Snooze fest. 

139-Ms Marvel (12,823) - Yikes. 

"Chavez" doesn't even have a title anymore because they know she won't sell more than 4k copies. So instead they will just shoe-horn her into another title. 

--Not one of these is a "non-SJW" title or written by a non-SJW title as you claimed ("there are plenty of NON-SJW comics don't sell for Marvel either"). Do I hate all of these comics? Nope, didn't say I did. I still buy plenty of bad comics. But these "writers/artists" continuously pump out the WORST SELLING COMICS and will be the final nail in the industries coffin. And they will laugh about it when it's over because they couldn't care any less. 

Watch Vita Ayala describe what "X-Men:Children of the Atom" is going to be about. It's hilarious. Short version: It's about Powers and Punching and um...one of them has a TikTok and um...one of them can google anything instantly. :roflmao:That's not social commentary. That's just bad writing. 

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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10 hours ago, kav said:

SJW's have NOTHING to do with social justice.  NOTHING.  They are AGAINST freedom and justice.  They are bullies.  It's THEIR WAY or the highway.  America Chavez's verbalized disgust at seeing white people and the artist's depiction of them as goofy weird looking grinning dolts is not social justice-it is racism.  If that's your idea of 'social justice', you can have it. 

You are looking a lot like a SJW dumped you on a date.  :baiting:

Edited by sfcityduck
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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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Stan_Lee.png

 

Marvel readers, you can be sure, noticed Stan Lee’s support of civil rights.  One reader wrote Stan in 1969 to complain about Marvel’s support for civil rights, ending his letter by stating “I’m not a racist, just a concerned Marvelite who doesn’t want his favorite comic company to be ruined by something that doesn’t concern you as comic publishers.”

 Stan’s published response in the letters page of the comic?:  

“But, such matters as racism and inequality do concern us, Tim — not just as comic mag artists and writers and publishers, but as human beings. Certainly it’s never been our intention to portray all, or even most, white Americans as hard-core bigots or screaming racists. Maybe it’s just that we think that many people in the land of the free have too long turned their backs or averted their eyes to the more unpleasant things that are going on every day. Maybe we felt we could do something — even within the relatively humble format of what used to be called a ‘comic-book’ – to change things just a bit for the better. If we failed, let’s just say that we’d at least like to have it said of us that — we tried.”

Stan Lee didn’t stop trying.

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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2 hours ago, Not A Clone said:

 

Your "Angry White Male" comments are way off base. Way to stereotype. I don't tell anyone in my life what they should or shouldn't believe, how they should look or anything like that. I'm actually VERY liberal. I don't like censorship. I grew up waving my fist at Tipper Gore (a  "liberal") and those angry mothers that wanted to sensor my Twisted Sister or (gasp) someone else's favorite, Madonna!  This was confusing, because the "liberal left" was trying to tell me what I could/couldn't listen to, while the "religious right wing " were holding CD/album/book burning bonfires. They sounded like the same thing  to me

The PRMC was founded in 1985 by Tipper Gore and Susan Baker -  the wife of Reagan's Secretary of Treasury James Baker.  It was not a liberal group.  It was a group started by concerned parents who overreacted to something they could not understand.  It didn't actually push for censorship, it pushed for warning labels.  Which the record companies did.  Historically, censorship of music and comics has been a conservative impulse, pushed by people who are overreacting to something they don't understand.  Tipper was definitely on the conservative side of that debate with James Baker's wife and the book burning types (the same folks who burned EC's in the 50s).  

The thing is this:  Most people are NOT always liberal or always conservative.  We tend to have opinions which can transcend the political spectrum.  While Tipper is generally liberal, the PRMC was a more conservative impulse on her part.

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kav

kav

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1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

You are looking a lot like a SJW dumped you on a date.  :baiting:

I hate bullies.   Always have.

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kav

kav

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7 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Marvel is not a bully.  You don't have to buy their drek.  And in this case, my guess is few will.

SJWs are bullies.  To the extent Marvel empowers their nonsense, they are part of the overall problem.

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kav

kav

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Marvel printed a comic that expressed condoned revulsion of white people.  Let that sink in.

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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Just now, kav said:

Marvel printed a comic that expressed condoned revulsion of white people.  Let that sink in.

Show me the panels.

Personally, as a white person who came from a state that literally banned black people from residing in that state, I can see why revulsion toward white folks is sometimes justified.

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kav

kav

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Just now, sfcityduck said:

Yeah, I'm not seeing that.  Your jihad against "SJWs" seems more than a bit over the top to me.  What have SJWs done to you again?

They prevented me from attending a speaking event of someone they disagreed with by mobbing and smashing windows, causing it to be canceled, for one example.

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kav

kav

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1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Show me the panels.

 

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kav

kav

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1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

When?  And who?  

I'll PM you so I dont get strike

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