IN THE ERA OF COVID19...BUYER'S MARKET?
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

So if I bid $1000 is that all I have to pay?

I'll elaborate

If a book generally sells for $1000 regardless of buyers premium ect ect, and I go to Heritage and bid a certain amount below that number because I'm factoring in the BP will the hammer drop at $1000 including the buyers premium? If that is the case then I'm paying FMV but if I bid at X and someone else bids at $1000 not factoring the BP % then they are paying well over $1000

That impacts GPA and gocollect in determining FMV of a product and now sellers outside of Heritage will demand what that final price was on Heritage for books they are selling

(If this is confusing I'll explain in greater detail when I wake up)

This scenario seems to be less of a problem of Heritage’s BP accidentally inflating current GPA and more an issue of buyers expecting to be spoon-fed what to pay for a book by GPA. 
 

It’s been awhile since I used GPA but my understanding is that if a book consistently sells for $1000 and a $1,200 sale suddenly appears you can research the sale. If the sale is on Heritage you can kind of assume the BP was probably involved.  But it also could be as Roy said: someone just wanted the book more. 
 

I guess the concern here is that the GPA lemmings are going to see the last sale of $1,200 and bid accordingly and the new normal is now based on a “false” premise because of the BP. 
 

Personally, I think that’s where a buyer has to step back and realize GPA is a useful tool but ultimately a buyer has to decide what a book is worth to them and what they’re willing to pay. 

Edited by Number 6

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8 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

This scenario seems to be less of a problem of Heritage’s BP accidentally inflating current GPA and more an issue of buyers expecting to be spoon-fed what to pay for a book by GPA. 
 

It’s been awhile since I used GPA but my understanding is that if a book consistently sells for $1000 and a $1,200 sale suddenly appears you can research the sale. If the sale is on Heritage you can kind of assume the BP was probably involved.  But it also could be as Roy said: someone just wanted the book more. 
 

I guess the concern here is that the GPA lemmings are going to see the last sale of $1,200 and bid accordingly and the new normal is now based on a “false” premise because of the BP. 
 

Personally, I think that’s where a buyer has to step back and realize GPA is a useful tool but ultimately a buyer has to decide what a book is worth to them and what they’re will to pay. 

I know there has been quite a bit of back and forth over this but I just don't know why you believe the 20% fee is not part of the cost of the book.  You want to debate if shipping should be part of GPA since free shipping sales may inflate the price of a book compared to shipping separate but the fee is irrelevant.   The book could be $500 with a 100% fee its a book that sold for $1,000.  Book sells for $0 and a $1000 fee its still $1000 for the book.  Why would a 20% buyer fee be any different then the 15% sellers fee - it's all part of the price paid for the book.

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1 minute ago, 1Cool said:

I know there has been quite a bit of back and forth over this but I just don't know why you believe the 20% fee is not part of the cost of the book.  You want to debate if shipping should be part of GPA since free shipping sales may inflate the price of a book compared to shipping separate but the fee is irrelevant.   The book could be $500 with a 100% fee its a book that sold for $1,000.  Book sells for $0 and a $1000 fee its still $1000 for the book.  Why would a 20% buyer fee be any different then the 15% sellers fee - it's all part of the price paid for the book.

Maybe the logic is that if there was no buyer's premium I would have won the book for $4000 versus $4800 with the buyer's premium added on.  I'm sure there will be others out there that agree or disagree but the only person the buyer's premium is hurting is the seller because less money goes into their pocket.  If I have to buy something in a heritage auction which is very rare I factor the buyer's premium into my bid.  Which always make me wonder why consignor's/sellers chose Heritage for selling since they are probably getting the least amount of money for their books.      

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6 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I know there has been quite a bit of back and forth over this but I just don't know why you believe the 20% fee is not part of the cost of the book.  You want to debate if shipping should be part of GPA since free shipping sales may inflate the price of a book compared to shipping separate but the fee is irrelevant.   The book could be $500 with a 100% fee its a book that sold for $1,000.  Book sells for $0 and a $1000 fee its still $1000 for the book.  Why would a 20% buyer fee be any different then the 15% sellers fee - it's all part of the price paid for the book.

Where did I say that that 20% wasn’t part of the cost of the book?

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45 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Where did I say that that 20% wasn’t part of the cost of the book?

"I guess the concern here is that the GPA lemmings are going to see the last sale of $1,200 and bid accordingly and the new normal is now based on a “false” premise because of the BP."

 

What does the following statement mean if it doesn't mean the 20% isn't part of the true cost of the book.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

"I guess the concern here is that the GPA lemmings are going to see the last sale of $1,200 and bid accordingly and the new normal is now based on a “false” premise because of the BP."

 

What does the following statement mean if it doesn't mean the 20% isn't part of the true cost of the book.

So you completely missed the fact that I put the word “false” in air quotes?
 

I thought it would be clear that by doing so I was indicating that $1,200 was not a legitimate sale from the perspective of those who do not think BP is part of the book’s price.

That’s not MY view, that’s why it’s in quotes. 


 

Edited by Number 6

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2 hours ago, G G ® said:

 

 

One of the best cutaways .. personal fav of mine

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1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Which always make me wonder why consignor's/sellers chose Heritage for selling since they are probably getting the least amount of money for their books.      

I assume the rationale is that there are more eyeballs looking at the Heritage Auctions since they supposedly have a far wider reach and I guess their fancy catalogues are also supposed to entice more potential buyers to throw in a bid.  (shrug)

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I think the debate over BP is not clear cut at all. There are differing opinions as to the 'morality of it'. I would prefer a completely level playing field with an ongoing auction. Fixed price, that's another matter entirely because you should be able to make an offer and take it from there, but I have never agreed with a tax on the buyer in any sense.

Is BP part of the price of the book?  I would personally venture no, it shouldn't be.

Buy a car in the UK and pay say 10 grand. That is the price you pay, that's supposedly what it's worth. Drive it out the showroom and immediately it's worth 8 grand because 20% was tax, or if you will, a buyer's premium.

Now let's say you immediately try to sell it with 0.1 miles on the clock? Good luck trying to get 10 grand for it, because you just lost your buyer's premium by driving it off the lot.

My point is tax is tax, call it any fancy nom de plume you like.

I'm asking for fees applied to seller's only, and no further fees imposed on buyer or seller in a disingenuous 'buyer's premium'.

People are crazy for going along with it...just because it's the norm in some selling venues.

It's wrong.

2c 

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18 minutes ago, G G ® said:

I think the debate over BP is not clear cut at all. There are differing opinions as to the 'morality of it'. I would prefer a completely level playing field with an ongoing auction. Fixed price, that's another matter entirely because you should be able to make an offer and take it from there, but I have never agreed with a tax on the buyer in any sense.

Is BP part of the price of the book?  I would personally venture no, it shouldn't be.

Buy a car in the UK and pay say 10 grand. That is the price you pay, that's supposedly what it's worth. Drive it out the showroom and immediately it's worth 8 grand because 20% was tax, or if you will, a buyer's premium.

Now let's say you immediately try to sell it with 0.1 miles on the clock? Good luck trying to get 10 grand for it, because you just lost your buyer's premium by driving it off the lot.

My point is tax is tax, call it any fancy nom de plume you like.

I'm asking for fees applied to seller's only, and no further fees imposed on buyer or seller in a disingenuous 'buyer's premium'.

People are crazy for going along with it...just because it's the norm in some selling venues.

It's wrong.

2c 

+1

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Interesting change in direction within the thread.  I buy on Heritage often and found in general that books pay in line with fair market value whether they are Gold, Silver, Bronze, Rare, or Common as dirt.

I bid knowing that there is a 20% surcharge.  I also use Clink and Connect to varying degrees.  I run as far as a I can from ebay.  It's just not worth the hassle.

The best place by far to purchase books is here.  

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8 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Maybe the logic is that if there was no buyer's premium I would have won the book for $4000 versus $4800 with the buyer's premium added on.  I'm sure there will be others out there that agree or disagree but the only person the buyer's premium is hurting is the seller because less money goes into their pocket.  If I have to buy something in a heritage auction which is very rare I factor the buyer's premium into my bid.  Which always make me wonder why consignor's/sellers chose Heritage for selling since they are probably getting the least amount of money for their books.      

It depends on the comics and/or original art you're consigning. It can also depend on how long you've been doing business with Heritage. Last year, Heritage offered me a 0% sellers fee, if I were to consigned at least $5K worth of CGC graded books.  

IMG_3016.jpg.a611dc26e8175beea9072494b8b6b03f.thumb.jpg.22900fb88496a1cbcc5ea030e86514b0.jpg

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Can someone run a poll on who thinks the buyers premium is not part of the cost of the book - I'd be surprised if more than a small percentage don't feel these fees are part of the price of the book

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, taro90 said:

It depends on the comics and/or original art you're consigning. It can also depend on how long you've been doing business with Heritage. Last year, Heritage offered me a 0% sellers fee, if I were to consigned at least $5K worth of CGC graded books.  

IMG_3016.jpg.a611dc26e8175beea9072494b8b6b03f.thumb.jpg.22900fb88496a1cbcc5ea030e86514b0.jpg

Actually, no real surprise here and to be expected as Heritage appears to be pretty desperate for books ever since they increased the frequency of their auctions.  :gossip:

If you take a look at their Signature Auction offerings right now, it's starting to take on the appearance of their Sunday Autions and their Sunday Auctions really don't have much truly vintage collectible quality material in there at all anymore. :p

Although it's nice that they are now offering to waive the Seller's Premium, it's still much better to get them to waive the Buyer's Premium and if you really have something of worthwhile quality, waive the BP plus take a bite off the SP at the same time.  (thumbsu

Edited by lou_fine

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Sales have kinda cooled down.. the past 3 months were the best I've ever had.. early March to early June

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8 hours ago, littledoom said:

Sales have kinda cooled down.. the past 3 months were the best I've ever had.. early March to early June

1 book sold over the last 4 days.  March was crazy - April was ok - May was slow and June so far has been frozen solid.  I also have been pretty busy processing a big purchase to get a bunch graded so I've been very lax on posting new books so that hasn't helped.

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9 hours ago, 1Cool said:

1 book sold over the last 4 days.  March was crazy - April was ok - May was slow and June so far has been frozen solid.  I also have been pretty busy processing a big purchase to get a bunch graded so I've been very lax on posting new books so that hasn't helped.

Appreciate your update.  I think those of us that are having conversations with others in the market are very concerned for the next six months and so what your experience has been is not surprising.

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18 hours ago, littledoom said:

Sales have kinda cooled down.. the past 3 months were the best I've ever had.. early March to early June

I haven't bought anything in awhile either...weird how collecting goes sometimes

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