Advice needed for a ebay problem - I'm the seller 3 3

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

14 minutes ago, october said:

 

eBay is not a casino. I am not gambling when I buy there. If the book has undisclosed resto, it goes back. If it has a page or pieces missing, it goes back. If it has a serious flaw not mentioned or pictured, it goes back....as it should.

All very well in principle, and I don't disagree with the principle. However sending books back is a pain and leaves you open to all sorts of problems like the book going missing or a dispute over the condition it's returned in etc.

It's better to buy from a reputable dealer in the first place and avoid the hangups. Being steadfastly adhered to the principle of a book should be what you think it should be regardless of possible consequences is just simply asking for trouble.

And therein lies the gamble. 

[Jeffro.]

11 hours ago, stock_rotation said:

Background: I bought a book 3 years ago from a well-respected seller/boardie.

Who is this well-respected seller/boardie who missed the color touch?

Edited April 12, 2020 by Jëffrö...

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

5 minutes ago, Jëffrö... said:

Who is this well-respected seller.boardie who missed the color touch?

uh oh.....poop storm ahead. 

[The Lions Den]

I've sold thousands of items on eBay and elsewhere over the years. I do my best to take decent pictures of every item I sell and also offer a written description of the item with a numerical grade whenever possible. If I can't come up with a numerical grade, I try to describe the item thoroughly in simple and (hopefully) effective terms. I also offer a 14 day money back guarantee in the event that someone isn't completely satisfied. On more expensive items, I often take the initiative and contact the buyer a few days after they've received it to make sure they're happy with the item.

On the rare occasions when something goes wrong, I do extend every buyer the option of returning the item. If they elect to keep the item but want a partial refund (generally 20% off the price, for example)  I'm willing to work toward that goal as well.  

Has the buyer filed an official claim against you? If that's the case, I would suggest contacting eBay.  Thoroughly explain the situation to them and see where it goes. If they ultimately rule in the buyer's favor, so be it...but I'd be willing to roll the dice on this one.

[The Lions Den]

32 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

This is a good question because this thread brings it up...What happens if your book looks pristine and during the grading process it is damaged by CGC?

Obviously CGC cannot give you a grade based on the books previous condition

Also, what is CGCs accountability if this happens?

In my experience, CGC usually does the right thing in those situations...  

Edited April 12, 2020 by The Lions Den

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

e(vens)bay

Your odds of any transaction there going well on a raw book.

[G.A.tor]

my guess is if buyer states "book not as described" you will be forced to refund...it is really that cut and dry these days it seems

[90sChild]

8 hours ago, kav said:

why should he agree to recieve a book that has been damaged after he sold it tho?

This is where we run into a big problem with ebay/paypal/credit card companies offering these crazy 3-6 month long refund periods.  They take the blanket stance that in the buyer's hands the item is still in the exact same condition 6 months later after the buyer did who knows what with it.   If you have photos of your original listing proving the cover was not detached, this seems like one piece of evidence that you could use towards proving your case the item cannot be returned to you because it is not in the same condition you sold it.

[90sChild]

53 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

In my experience, CGC usually does the right thing in those situations...  

Do they call you up and say hey we damaged your book on accident, or do they wait for you to complain and provide pictures proving it was not returned to you in the same condition you sent it in?  I'll guess at which is more efficient from a business perspective.

 

[mattn792]

3 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I just read that over on Voldy's boards.

As soon as I read the OP post one thing instantly came to mind.  Back in the 90's when Toys were the next big thing to comics toy scalpers were everywhere. They were looking for the 'girl' figures, the Treasure Hunts from Hot Wheels and the chase figures.  What these guys would do is get up at the crack of dawn to go to Walmart or Target or Toys R Us and buy anything that they thought had even the remote chance of being valuable.  They would then list it on AOL, Prodigy, and take the inventory to Comic and Toy shows.  Whatever did not sell they would try to return to Toys R Us with their receipts or get back Geoffrey Bucks.  (Remember those?).

Eventually Toys R Us had enough of this routine and posted signs that they would no longer accept returns for collectible action figures.  The situation got so bad that the sign was posted in every TRU in the area.   That must have been a corporate decision. 

This guy reminded me of the toy buyers from the 1990's for some reason. 

That chargeback guy was an (unflattering something) for sure, those grade gaps should have been obvious as soon as he had the books in hand.  Learn to grade, jerk. 

 

[thunsicker]

1 hour ago, october said:

I think some of you are letting poor selling techniques off the hook too easily. It's a seller's responsibility to know what they have and accurately describe it, not the buyer's. This is doubly true when dealing online, where the buyer has no opportunity to inspect in-hand. "As-is" and "no return" selling is sheer laziness and doesn't absolve people of their responsibilities.

eBay is not a casino. I am not gambling when I buy there. If the book has undisclosed resto, it goes back. If it has a page or pieces missing, it goes back. If it has a serious flaw not mentioned or pictured, it goes back....as it should.

Yeah, this surprised me a bit as well.  I guess no one has issues with Dupcak’s sales model any more.  Not saying the OP did it intentionally like Dupcak does, but over grading and missed restoration used to be thought of as a no no around here.

[The Lions Den]

34 minutes ago, 90sChild said:

Do they call you up and say hey we damaged your book on accident, or do they wait for you to complain and provide pictures proving it was not returned to you in the same condition you sent it in?  I'll guess at which is more efficient from a business perspective.

 

I've actually seen both of these scenarios take place...  

Edited April 12, 2020 by The Lions Den

[october]

2 hours ago, G G ® said:

Being steadfastly adhered to the principle of a book should be what you think it should be regardless of possible consequences is just simply asking for trouble.

It's not what I think it should be, it's what should be disclosed and isn't, or what should be accurately described and isn't. The onus is on the seller, not the buyer and if not explicitly mentioned it's assumed that the comic is complete and restoration free. If a car is missing an engine, I shouldn't have to specifically inquire for that to be disclosed. Ditto with missing pages or restoration. It makes no difference if it's a "professional" seller or not. This is pretty basic stuff, the bare minimum standard all sellers are responsible for. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by october

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

6 minutes ago, october said:

It's not what I think it should be, it's what should be disclosed and isn't, or what should be accurately described and isn't. The onus is on the seller, not the buyer and if not explicitly mentioned it's assumed that the comic is complete and restoration free. If a car is missing an engine, I shouldn't have to specifically inquire for that to be disclosed. Ditto with missing pages or restoration. It makes no difference if it's a "professional" seller or not. This is pretty basic stuff, the bare minimum standard all sellers are responsible for. 

Yeah, as I say I'm not disagreeing with you on that.

But we are talking about ebay, and not everybody on there behaves in a professional way or in the right way. It should be like that but it's not.

As I said before ebay is basically a microcosm of society. We would all like it to be the perfect animal.

Sadly, it's not.

[Lazyboy]

13 hours ago, kav said:

Do not refund anything, and block.  You did nothing wrong here.  Buying raws always comes with the possibility of CT.  If he wants a no CT guarantee, buy a slabbed book.
Tired of ppl buying raws but still want the guarantees of a slab.

Since when does CGC guarantee their restoration check? (Hint: NEVER)

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

my guess is if buyer states "book not as described" you will be forced to refund...it is really that cut and dry these days it seems

Yes. Ebay/Paypal/CC companies typically side with the buyer, who usually prevails, regardless of their level of culpability.

[Lazyboy]

14 hours ago, stock_rotation said:

Here's where the problem comes in. The cover was not detached when I bought it, it was not detached when I sold it to him (as mentioned in my auction and can be seen in the photo), and I'm 99% sure it wasn't detached when he submitted it, because if it was detached he would have mentioned it to me when he was drilling the book down to a 4.5. So now I'm stuck as to what to do. I don't want to take the book back because it's damaged, but a 40% refund for the minor CT seems unfair. I feel pretty confident that if it comes to it, I would win an ebay or paypal dispute and not need to take the return back, but I feel an obligation to right the wrong of the undisclosed CT. Now that I know where to look I can see it in my original auction pic, so it's definitely on me.

That sucks. Without the cover becoming detached, you could simply refund the purchase price and get the book back, but the damage greatly complicates things.

The costs of submitting to CGC are entirely on the buyer. You are not responsible for those. The act of submitting to CGC has nothing to do with your transaction. It certainly doesn't absolve you of responsibility for what you sold, unlike some others have suggested (I know you acknowledge that the CT is your problem to fix and am not blaming you for the  comments of others).

I wish you luck in getting this resolved.

[rjpb]

14 hours ago, comicquant said:

Are you sure it was the same book?  Small color touch is more than slight so it seems like something you'd notice.

I'd ask for a scan of the slabbed book to compare to the book shipped before I'd agree to anything. 

[kav]

 

11 hours ago, jokiing said:

You do make a good point, although I've heard complaints about sellers not giving grades as well. I provide a grade for my sales, along with 11 or 12 photos and detailed descriptions of even the smallest defects. My grading leans conservative and I grade a point lower than my humble opinion. I'm thinking maybe I'll try your approach with my future auctions and see if I notice a difference. I mostly sell raw books from the 80's... from my personal collection.

Ignore the complaints abt not giving grades.  When I gave grades it was headache city.  People disagree with CGC grades all the time so what chance does a mere mortal have?  If anything I have noticed an increase in bid amounts and have had not a single return or complaint since I started listing no grades.  Give it a whirl.

Edited April 12, 2020 by kav

[kav]

2 hours ago, october said:

The onus is on the seller, not the buyer and if not explicitly mentioned it's assumed that the comic is complete and restoration free. If a car is missing an engine, I shouldn't have to specifically inquire for that to be disclosed. Ditto with missing pages or restoration. It makes no difference if it's a "professional" seller or not. This is pretty basic stuff, the bare minimum standard all sellers are responsible for. 

Legally, its buyer beware.  If a seller sells a car and does not know there's a mechanical problem, they are not obligated to return your money.  Likewise with resto.  The onus is not on the seller to be as knowledgeable about resto as a team of CGC graders, just as someone selling car on craigs list is not expected to be a master mechanic who has gone thru the vehicle with a fine toothed comb.
Sellers of raw books on ebay are not expected to be magic filters that gurantee a blue label slab for every book.  Thats expecting a CGC book at raw prices.

Edited April 12, 2020 by kav