60s English Price Stamp
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Dunno if you've ever seen any, but in the 60s comics shipped to the UK got an ugly large black price stamp. I have one on an Action Comics 290 that without the stamp would easily get a 9.4. Given that according to census there are no known copies higher mine may be the highest copy out there. But it depends on how CGC will view that price stamp. Anyone got any experience regarding how much or if it all those 60s UK stamps affect a grade ?

(Can't post a scan of the comic as it's currently in the USA awaiting an eventual c&p and submission but here's a pic of a comic with such a stamp)

unnamed.jpg

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15 hours ago, speople said:

Dunno if you've ever seen any, but in the 60s comics shipped to the UK got an ugly large black price stamp.

Never seen one before in my life Speople :)

Some of these people might have though:

 

Second 'Ask CGC' attempt! :wishluck:

Capture.thumb.PNG.fdcc7b90a4a2f9d4fd2a8ebd0310c3ac.PNG

 

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9 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Never seen one before in my life Speople :)

Some of these people might have though:

 

Second 'Ask CGC' attempt! :wishluck:

Capture.thumb.PNG.fdcc7b90a4a2f9d4fd2a8ebd0310c3ac.PNG

 

Thanks for the redirect.

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CGC should treat this as a date stamp, which is considered part of the distribution process. To my mind it should not impact the grade. 

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7 hours ago, PovertyRow said:

CGC should treat this as a date stamp, which is considered part of the distribution process. To my mind it should not impact the grade. 

It would depend on how carefully placed the T&P  stamp is, especially the '59-'64 ones, whether a grade would drop or not.

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29 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It would depend on how carefully placed the T&P  stamp is, especially the '59-'64 ones, whether a grade would drop or not.

Indeed. Many grading guides of the past have spoken of 'unobtrusive' stamps not affecting grades but these are almost always in reference to date stamps. Date stamps can be unobtrusive of course and even desirable. Can the same be said for Thorpe & Porters' price stamps though?

This one below is definitely unobtrusive, as Spidey has to point it out. You'd miss it otherwise :grin:

25.thumb.jpg.0d889f52a51571e58f255dfa5a303425.jpg

Hopefully CGC will respond this time to my second 'Ask CGC' attempt :wishluck:

 

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Posted (edited)

That is nicely placed, Steve. (thumbsu

The stamps from mid-60's were a little better, and almost invisible when the ink ran low, but you'd still get ones that obscured and spoilt the artwork:frown:

 

Edited by Gnasher

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38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

That is nicely placed, Steve. (thumbsu

The stamps from mid-60's were a little better, and almost invisible when the ink ran low, but you'd still get ones that obscured and spoilt the artwork:frown:

 

I found some real crackers during my first distribution research Bob. Some stampers definitely had a sense of humour at least, if not any skill for unobtrusive placement :bigsmile:

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2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Indeed. Many grading guides of the past have spoken of 'unobtrusive' stamps not affecting grades but these are almost always in reference to date stamps. Date stamps can be unobtrusive of course and even desirable. Can the same be said for Thorpe & Porters' price stamps though?

This one below is definitely unobtrusive, as Spidey has to point it out. You'd miss it otherwise :grin:

25.thumb.jpg.0d889f52a51571e58f255dfa5a303425.jpg

Hopefully CGC will respond this time to my second 'Ask CGC' attempt :wishluck:

 

I disagree.  Placement of a date stamp should not alter the grade.  You want to talk obtrusive?  How about those hideously ugly signatures that get put on covers willy nilly.  I don't think that those alter the grade depending on placement but I could be wrong.

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52 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

I disagree.  Placement of a date stamp should not alter the grade.  You want to talk obtrusive?  How about those hideously ugly signatures that get put on covers willy nilly.  I don't think that those alter the grade depending on placement but I could be wrong.

You might be right. One difference I see in that comparison though is that it is in CGC's interest not to downgrade a book that has been 'defaced' by a marker pen signature, given their current Signature Series Programme. We'll see. 

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2 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

I disagree.  Placement of a date stamp should not alter the grade.  You want to talk obtrusive?  How about those hideously ugly signatures that get put on covers willy nilly.  I don't think that those alter the grade depending on placement but I could be wrong.

A majority of the stamps are normally discretely placed, some though are acts of vandalism almost....see post from previous thread on the subject.

 

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1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

You might be right. One difference I see in that comparison though is that it is in CGC's interest not to downgrade a book that has been 'defaced' by a marker pen signature, given their current Signature Series Programme. We'll see. 

As a curiosity question, how do we know that books are indeed (in some cases) down graded as a result of poorly placed distributor/date stamps?

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2 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

As a curiosity question, how do we know that books are indeed (in some cases) down graded as a result of poorly placed distributor/date stamps?

I don't, but others have asked if there is an impact and logic suggests there might be. That's why I've asked CGC twice to clarify as I haven't seen anything official from them about it. Also, old pre-CGC grading standards used to indicate that a date stamp had to be inobtrusive to be ignored so there's precedent for it to be a factor. 

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Back in the old days of collecting the consensus was that scotch tape reinforcement would not count as restoration because many old timey collectors did it, even on their new comics. Then CGC decided that the scotch tape was OK but the less damaging, archival tape or Japan paper/wheat paste was to be dinged for restoration. I always protested this most vigorously. It was insane to me. All Japan paper with wheat paste was is homemade tape! Somewhere on the boards is a most vigorous back and forth I had with CGC on this. Thankfully Scotch tape is being taken more into consideration as it should.

In my reply above I had literally just woken up and had reached for my phone to check CGC. So when I said "CGC should treat this as a date stamp, which is considered part of the distribution process. To my mind it should not impact the grade." I was more editorializing than posting CGC fact, hence the use of "should" and "in my mind".

Honestly I feel CGC and other TPGs have gone too far. They are making too many aesthetic judgments as opposed to just grading the structure of the book. Sure someone scribbling all over the cover defaces and downgrades the book. But something that is part of the distribution/retail process should not downgrade the book. Just grade the book, leave more of the aesthetic judgement out of the final number, and let the collectors decide what does and does not fit into their own definition and standards of collectibility  and beauty and desirability and acquire-ability!

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4 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

Back in the old days of collecting the consensus was that scotch tape reinforcement would not count as restoration because many old timey collectors did it, even on their new comics. Then CGC decided that the scotch tape was OK but the less damaging, archival tape or Japan paper/wheat paste was to be dinged for restoration. I always protested this most vigorously. It was insane to me. All Japan paper with wheat paste was is homemade tape! Somewhere on the boards is a most vigorous back and forth I had with CGC on this. Thankfully Scotch tape is being taken more into consideration as it should.

In my reply above I had literally just woken up and had reached for my phone to check CGC. So when I said "CGC should treat this as a date stamp, which is considered part of the distribution process. To my mind it should not impact the grade." I was more editorializing than posting CGC fact, hence the use of "should" and "in my mind".

Honestly I feel CGC and other TPGs have gone too far. They are making too many aesthetic judgments as opposed to just grading the structure of the book. Sure someone scribbling all over the cover defaces and downgrades the book. But something that is part of the distribution/retail process should not downgrade the book. Just grade the book, leave more of the aesthetic judgement out of the final number, and let the collectors decide what does and does not fit into their own definition and standards of collectibility  and beauty and desirability and acquire-ability!

Indeed. They've gone too far in quite a few areas in my view. But we're all speculating at the moment on price stamps because we don't yet know their position. Let's see what they have to say and take it from there. If they delete my question a second time though, then we storm the tower :bigsmile:

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11 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

Somewhere on the boards is a most vigorous back and forth I had with CGC on this

I'd like to read that by the way, if you can find it in your posting history :wishluck:

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11 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I'd like to read that by the way, if you can find it in your posting history :wishluck:

Found it here!

\http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=6600863&Searchpage=1&Main=294990&Words=archival+_tape+Poverty_Row&topic=0&Search=true#Post6600863

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I'd like CGC to start every book that they grade at a 10.  From there, start listing the defects WITH the numerical point deduction for each.  This way you'd see exactly how they arrived at the grade for a particular book without scratching your head and wondering whether it was actually throwing darts at a dart board in a dark room.

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6 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

I disagree.  Placement of a date stamp should not alter the grade.  You want to talk obtrusive?  How about those hideously ugly signatures that get put on covers willy nilly.  I don't think that those alter the grade depending on placement but I could be wrong.

Of course they don't, since the SS label is a qualified label that completely ignores the signature's impact on the grade.

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