What the numerical grade on a conserved label mean? 1 1

[Tony S]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:04 PM, Pantodude said:

So you three guys who responded most recently are basically saying that Tony S was WRONG when he wrote, "Restored or conserved, the numeric grade represents what the book would otherwise grade if not restored or conserved."     So I must ask:  WHO is right?   Do i go with the majority?  

I'm not saying it clearly or you misunderstand. Think of the numeric grade being the appearance of the book. Universal, conserved, restored, qualified.  If the book has had some conservation work done - and LOOKS like a 6.0 - it gets a conserved label 6.0.  If a book has not had anything done to it and looks like a 6.0, it gets a blue label universal 6.0. If the book looks like a 6.0 and has had restoration work done - it gets a Restored label 6.0. (CGC also "grades" the quality and extent of restoration. A B C and 1 2 3) 

There can be some exceptions - typically a hidden defect inside the book like a torn page or coupon filled out. Or a defect very difficult to otherwise see in a slab (say a detached cover) The numeric grade assigned will be lower than the appearance. But otherwise I believe I have explained it more clearly. 

The only way to know what a book that is conserved is going to grade if you remove the conserved materials is to do it and send it back in.  As I said, a book with a lot of reinforcement papers added probably is not going to be structurally intact if all of that reinforcement is removed.  The drop in the numeric grade could potentially be huge. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Tony S

[Pantodude]

8 hours ago, Tony S said:

I'm not saying it clearly or you misunderstand. Think of the numeric grade being the appearance of the book. Universal, conserved, restored, qualified.  If the book has had some conservation work done - and LOOKS like a 6.0 - it gets a conserved label 6.0.  If a book has not had anything done to it and looks like a 6.0, it gets a blue label universal 6.0. If the book looks like a 6.0 and has had restoration work done - it gets a Restored label 6.0. (CGC also "grades" the quality and extent of restoration. A B C and 1 2 3) 

There can be some exceptions - typically a hidden defect inside the book like a torn page or coupon filled out. Or a defect very difficult to otherwise see in a slab (say a detached cover) The numeric grade assigned will be lower than the appearance. But otherwise I believe I have explained it more clearly. 

The only way to know what a book that is conserved is going to grade if you remove the conserved materials is to do it and send it back in.  As I said, a book with a lot of reinforcement papers added probably is not going to be structurally intact if all of that reinforcement is removed.  The drop in the numeric grade could potentially be huge. 

Thanks.  Just one more follow-up.   CGC says:  "Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1"."    Shouldn't that give comfort that quantify of the reinforcement and tear seals is NOT such that, once unconserved, the grade hit wouild be huge (that the book would fall apart)?   Or are you saying that the quote only applies to each instance of tear seal and reinforcement, and you still get a conserved grade no matter how many reinforced/sealed areas there are?  

Edited October 2, 2020 by Pantodude

[The Lions Den]

5 hours ago, Pantodude said:

Shouldn't that give comfort that quantify of the reinforcement and tear seals is NOT such that, once unconserved, the grade hit wouild be huge (that the book would fall apart)?   Or are you saying that the quote only applies to each instance of tear seal and reinforcement, and you still get a conserved grade no matter how many reinforced/sealed areas there are?  

It does give some comfort to get the Conserved label because the guidelines are very strict. It's based primarily on these key factors:  1)  The materials used.   2)  The visual quality of the work.  3)  The extent of piece fill.   4)  The extent of color touch. 

From what I recall, they don't specify the size or amount of tear seals...

[Tony S]

On 10/2/2020 at 6:23 AM, Pantodude said:

Thanks.  Just one more follow-up.   CGC says:  "Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1"."    Shouldn't that give comfort that quantify of the reinforcement and tear seals is NOT such that, once unconserved, the grade hit wouild be huge (that the book would fall apart)?   Or are you saying that the quote only applies to each instance of tear seal and reinforcement, and you still get a conserved grade no matter how many reinforced/sealed areas there are?  

If comic book pages are reinforced, it was done so because it the paper itself was weak. Removing the reinforcement is probably going to weaken it further. We are talking about cheap, thin and old paper.