How does Pen affect grading
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Hello Everyone,

I recently purchased an issue of Secret Wars 8 online which was graded a NM+ according to seller. Pictures looked great from what seller had provided but I noticed a lot more once issue had arrived to my house.....

I found what seems to be a very small tear of roughly 1/4” on the top of cover and also what seems to be 4 small pen dots in the centre of issue to the left of spideys head.

I believe I did get it a great price all things considered but am really disappointed with the purchase. Before trying to return it I’d like to hear some educated opinions on how this should be graded or roughly what it’s grade is currently like so.

I appreciate it and thanks!

1487AE86-2E57-429D-A23B-790E194BB7E8.jpeg

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Do you have a nice pic of the spine?

Is the tear an actual spine split or a bindery tear?

If it is a bindery tear it will not get as large a deduction in grade as opposed to an actual spine split.

I do not have my books graded so I have no experience in how CGC deducts or determines how much to deduct for defects such as those on an otherwise high grade book.

Can the ink be removed without damage to the book?

IMO and if that were my book that I was grading I would grade it at a VF 8.0 and make notations about the ink marks and tear.

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6 hours ago, marvelmaniac said:

Do you have a nice pic of the spine?

Is the tear an actual spine split or a bindery tear?

If it is a bindery tear it will not get as large a deduction in grade as opposed to an actual spine split.

I do not have my books graded so I have no experience in how CGC deducts or determines how much to deduct for defects such as those on an otherwise high grade book.

Can the ink be removed without damage to the book?

IMO and if that were my book that I was grading I would grade it at a VF 8.0 and make notations about the ink marks and tear.

Thanks for the reply I will attach some additional pictures for you. As for the pen mark i’m not entirely sure I don’t want to attempt removing it on my own in case I make it worse.

3DEBFF78-E7D8-426E-87CA-FB6A150F0A4D.jpeg

D8ACC074-6170-4930-A034-71D4D24CF760.jpeg

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49FB3C6B-243D-4139-BE49-F8657F4D6E0F.jpeg

E797A350-F817-443F-8B22-CE263783A02B.jpeg

F63C67FC-C66D-4BCF-8B80-5094FF8C9198.jpeg

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On 11/16/2020 at 2:55 PM, RyanTrav said:

Hello Everyone,

I recently purchased an issue of Secret Wars 8 online which was graded a NM+ according to seller. Pictures looked great from what seller had provided but I noticed a lot more once issue had arrived to my house.....

I found what seems to be a very small tear of roughly 1/4” on the top of cover and also what seems to be 4 small pen dots in the centre of issue to the left of spideys head.

I believe I did get it a great price all things considered but am really disappointed with the purchase. Before trying to return it I’d like to hear some educated opinions on how this should be graded or roughly what it’s grade is currently like so.

I appreciate it and thanks!

1487AE86-2E57-429D-A23B-790E194BB7E8.jpeg

What was the cost, if you don't mind my asking? 

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That's not NM+ (ie 9.6), it's not even close.

You can't remove pen from the cover (at least not without it being detected). It looks like there is color rub around the area where someone tried. That and the tear and chips at the top I'd say knocks it down into 8.0-8.5 territory.

At $250 US if the ASM 252 is actually NM, you probably didn't get ripped, but it's not a deal.

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36 minutes ago, RhialtoTheMarvellous said:

That's not NM+ (ie 9.6), it's not even close.

You can't remove pen from the cover (at least not without it being detected). It looks like there is color rub around the area where someone tried. That and the tear and chips at the top I'd say knocks it down into 8.0-8.5 territory.

At $250 US if the ASM 252 is actually NM, you probably didn't get ripped, but it's not a deal.

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately the pictures he had sent looked clear but not clear enough to detect those issues till I received them in person. As for the ASM 252 it’s almost flawless on the outside with minimal spine crack or 2. But interior pages are off white (more brown than white). I purchased from a private eBay seller hopefully he accepts my return but now I’m out 25 bucks to ship it back which is BS.....I guess you get what you pay for sometimes

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As far as removing the ink, I was referring to whether it could be done professionally.

Looking at your pics it is probably a Bindery Tear, however...

Besides the ink marks I see corner wear, top edge wear and what appears to be a spine tick(s).

Overall from what I see I am sticking with my initial assessment of a VF 8.0.

Here is the difference between what your seller stated and what I see.

9.6 NEAR MINT+ (NM+):  Back to Top
Nearly perfect with a minor additional virtue or virtues that raise it from Near Mint. Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed. No bindery tears are allowed, although on Golden Age books bindery tears of up to 1/8" have been noted. Cover is flat with no surface wear. Inks are bright with high reflectivity and a minimum of fading. One corner may be almost imperceptibly blunted, but still almost sharp and cut square. Almost imperceptible indentations are permissible, but no creases, bends, or color break. Small, inconspicuous, lightly penciled, stamped or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an unobtrusive location. Spine is tight and flat. Staples must be original, generally centered, with only the slightest discoloration. Paper is off-white, supple and fresh. Only the slightest interior tears are allowed.

 

8.0 VERY FINE (VF):  Back to Top
An excellent copy with outstanding eye appeal. A limited accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Cover is relatively flat with minimal surface wear beginning to show, possibly including some minute wear at corners. Inks are generally bright with moderate to high reflectivity. An unnoticeable 1/4" crease is acceptable if color is not broken. Stamped or inked arrival dates may be present. Minor foxing. Spine is almost completely flat with a possible minor color break. Staples may show some discoloration. Very slight staple tears and a few almost insignificant stress lines may be present. Paper is cream to tan and supple. Centerfold is mostly secure. Minor interior tears at the margin may be present.

For comparison sake, I graded my copy of Secret Wars #8 (bought new) at a VF/NM 9.0.

MARVEL SUPER HERO SECRET WARS 8.jpg

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1 minute ago, marvelmaniac said:

As far as removing the ink, I was referring to whether it could be done professionally.

Looking at your pics it is probably a Bindery Tear, however...

Besides the ink marks I see corner wear, top edge wear and what appears to be a spine tick(s).

Overall from what I see I am sticking with my initial assessment of a VF 8.0.

Here is the difference between what your seller stated and what I see.

9.6 NEAR MINT+ (NM+):  Back to Top
Nearly perfect with a minor additional virtue or virtues that raise it from Near Mint. Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed. No bindery tears are allowed, although on Golden Age books bindery tears of up to 1/8" have been noted. Cover is flat with no surface wear. Inks are bright with high reflectivity and a minimum of fading. One corner may be almost imperceptibly blunted, but still almost sharp and cut square. Almost imperceptible indentations are permissible, but no creases, bends, or color break. Small, inconspicuous, lightly penciled, stamped or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an unobtrusive location. Spine is tight and flat. Staples must be original, generally centered, with only the slightest discoloration. Paper is off-white, supple and fresh. Only the slightest interior tears are allowed.

 

8.0 VERY FINE (VF):  Back to Top
An excellent copy with outstanding eye appeal. A limited accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Cover is relatively flat with minimal surface wear beginning to show, possibly including some minute wear at corners. Inks are generally bright with moderate to high reflectivity. An unnoticeable 1/4" crease is acceptable if color is not broken. Stamped or inked arrival dates may be present. Minor foxing. Spine is almost completely flat with a possible minor color break. Staples may show some discoloration. Very slight staple tears and a few almost insignificant stress lines may be present. Paper is cream to tan and supple. Centerfold is mostly secure. Minor interior tears at the margin may be present.

For comparison sake, I graded my copy of Secret Wars #8 (bought new) at a VF/NM 9.0.

MARVEL SUPER HERO SECRET WARS 8.jpg

Thank you that was very helpful.. I’m still pretty new to the collecting world so I’m trying to learn as I go along. I’ve sent a msg to the seller in regards to returning the issues and hope that I am able to.

BTW that is a beautiful issue!! 

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Grading is difficult, especially when they are your books, you tend to look at everything through "Rose Colored Glasses".

Some do not care to take the time to grade properly or hope the buyer is unaware.

If you are looking to learn about collecting and comic books might I suggest...

https://www.amazon.com/Overstreet-Comic-Book-Price-Guide/dp/1603602526

https://www.gemstonepub.com/en/the-overstreet-guide-to-grading-comics-2016-edition

The prices in the Comic Book Price Guide will not be current but more of a "General Guide" but the book contains a wealth of information.

If you want to get an idea of current FMV look at eBay Sold Items from Auction.

 

https://comics.ha.com/tutorial/comics-grading.s?show=comicdefinitions

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7 hours ago, RhialtoTheMarvellous said:

That's not NM+ (ie 9.6), it's not even close.

At $250 US if the ASM 252 is actually NM, you probably didn't get ripped, but it's not a deal.

This. The grades were ambitious and aggressively over-promised, but final analysis is the OP is just about within the range of getting what he paid for. Almost. 

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