Why did I get a purple label? 6 6

[TappanZee]

16 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's not that CGC can't make mistakes---they can and do. But if we look at the details surrounding this particular case, I'd be extremely surprised if they reversed this decision. Believe it or not, cases like this happen all the time at CGC. People think there's no way their book could be restored, but sadly, it often is. 

My suggestion would be for folks to buy a good quality jeweler's loupe. It really is amazing what you'll find...  

I'm curious how often it happens to books that have had only one owner? Obviously I can't prove the provenance of my comic to you, but for reasons detailed above, the circumstances that would have led this particular comic being retouched are incredibly farfetched. 

As you say, I do expect CGC has heard similar stories, and for that reason I am not optimistic, but so far they seem to be treating my case with the concern I would want. All I can do at this point is hope they continue to keep an open mind about their process.

[shadroch]

If the OP had carefully picked out a copy, read it once and it sat bagged and boarded from then until it was sent in, I'd expect it would grade higher than an 8.0. Perhaps he found a second copy along the way. 

[TappanZee]

1 minute ago, shadroch said:

If the OP had carefully picked out a copy, read it once and it sat bagged and boarded from then until it was sent in, I'd expect it would grade higher than an 8.0. Perhaps he found a second copy along the way. 

It's my only copy. I don't think I ever said I picked it out carefully - it was my most likely in my pull folder when I bought it from Big Apple Comics in 1988. It's also likely I didn't bag it initially, but some years after I bought it when I realized I should take better care of my comics. I still have big chunks of my collection that aren't in bags at all. I have a long term project to bag and board everything but with 6,000+ comics it's a process.

And I was expecting a higher grade, too. You can see the pre-submitted original at the start of this thread and draw your own conclusion.

[sledgehammer]

34 minutes ago, shadroch said:

If the OP had carefully picked out a copy, read it once and it sat bagged and boarded from then until it was sent in, I'd expect it would grade higher than an 8.0. Perhaps he found a second copy along the way. 

This mystery is just mesmerizing.

Maybe somebody else in the family with comic knowledge pulled the old "switcheroo"?

The possibilities are endless, and so exciting.

[Sensei Ryan]

8 hours ago, Pat Thomas said:

If they refuse to fix it, and you know it's wrong, take the book out and sell it raw. They aren't the end all be all people make them out to be.

Since you're advocating he take this route if CGC refuses to fix it, would you also suggest he not disclose the color touch restoration on the book since he disagrees with that as well? 

Sorry, but I think suggesting that he crack it out and resell it raw if he doesn't get the resolution he's asking for is horrible advice. It's still a high value book, and will gain him a net profit above his grading fees, if he sells it as is and encapsulated post-CGC decision. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Sensei Ryan

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, TappanZee said:

I'm curious how often it happens to books that have had only one owner?

It's the oldest story in the book...  

[TappanZee]

8 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's the oldest story in the book...  

Again, I have no way to prove to you I'm the only owner of the book, or that this is my first time dealing with CGC, or that I'm not a billionaire, or that I'm not Lady Gaga. It's an internet forum, and we're both posting anonymously. You can believe me or not, it matters not a bit either way.

I've explained my situation as best as I'm able, and since I've received a lot of useful perspectives here, I'm glad I did. Speculation about my veracity or motives is fair, and maybe even expected, but it's ultimately just meaningless chatter in the ether.   

[Randall Dowling]

20 minutes ago, TappanZee said:

Again, I have no way to prove to you I'm the only owner of the book, or that this is my first time dealing with CGC, or that I'm not a billionaire, or that I'm not Lady Gaga. It's an internet forum, and we're both posting anonymously. You can believe me or not, it matters not a bit either way.

I've explained my situation as best as I'm able, and since I've received a lot of useful perspectives here, I'm glad I did. Speculation about my veracity or motives is fair, and maybe even expected, but it's ultimately just meaningless chatter in the ether.   

To be fair, @The Lions Den used to work at CGC as a grader.  He has always been pretty even handed about 2 facts:

1. CGC can and does make mistakes from time to time as they process a very high volume of books and people are human.
2. More often than not, submitters claim outrage, innocence, persecution and any number of other things when they most definitely know they're trying to get something by the graders (like restoration, missing pages, coupon cuts, etc.).  And (in my experience) very rarely, they succeed.

In any case, there's no way for him to ascertain what happened with your particular book.  I think most here take you at your word.  Some always assume CGC is infallible.  Some assume CGC is always wrong.  I think the Lion's approach is the best.  What he's telling you sounds fair enough to me, if not what you want to hear. 

I know of at least one other very well known member of these boards that bought a book off the stands, bagged it and kept it pristine until he submitted it.  CGC came back with a purple label- TRIMMED.  I find it most likely that CGC is in error for that book.  The same may be for you also.  But you're new here and this community is a little wary of new posters claiming outrage at CGC, for better or for worse.  

[seanfingh]

13 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

To be fair, @The Lions Den used to work at CGC as a grader.  He has always been pretty even handed about 2 facts:

1. CGC can and does make mistakes from time to time as they process a very high volume of books and people are human.
2. More often than not, submitters claim outrage, innocence, persecution and any number of other things when they most definitely know they're trying to get something by the graders (like restoration, missing pages, coupon cuts, etc.).  And (in my experience) very rarely, they succeed.

In any case, there's no way for him to ascertain what happened with your particular book.  I think most here take you at your word.  Some always assume CGC is infallible.  Some assume CGC is always wrong.  I think the Lion's approach is the best.  What he's telling you sounds fair enough to me, if not what you want to hear. 

I know of at least one other very well known member of these boards that bought a book off the stands, bagged it and kept it pristine until he submitted it.  CGC came back with a purple label- TRIMMED.  I find it most likely that CGC is in error for that book.  The same may be for you also.  But you're new here and this community is a little wary of new posters claiming outrage at CGC, for better or for worse.  

I purchased a large lot of Warren Magazines from an original owner. He kept them in amazing shape. Many of them came back after being signed 9.6. One of them came back 9.6 Purple and it was determined that there was a dot of ballpoint pen ink on the cover. The only real explanation was that at some point either the newsstand, the OO or myself dropped a ball point pen on the cover. At the time I was having it reviewed, I asked whether they were analyzing whether the ink was damage, or whether it was attempted CT - my thought  being that if it didn't clearly appear to be done to improve the looks of the book, then it should just be plain old damage. At the time they were pretty adamant that they were not in the business of making value judgments about stray ink. I thought that was kind of interesting at the time.  I tell that story because most of the posts are assuming that someone engaged in CT actively, when it could just as easily (and possibly more logically) be stray ink that was not intentionally placed on the book, but is there nonetheless.

[comicdonna]

3 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

I purchased a large lot of Warren Magazines from an original owner. He kept them in amazing shape. Many of them came back after being signed 9.6. One of them came back 9.6 Purple and it was determined that there was a dot of ballpoint pen ink on the cover. The only real explanation was that at some point either the newsstand, the OO or myself dropped a ball point pen on the cover. At the time I was having it reviewed, I asked whether they were analyzing whether the ink was damage, or whether it was attempted CT - my thought  being that if it didn't clearly appear to be done to improve the looks of the book, then it should just be plain old damage. At the time they were pretty adamant that they were not in the business of making value judgments about stray ink. I thought that was kind of interesting at the time.  I tell that story because most of the posts are assuming that someone engaged in CT actively, when it could just as easily (and possibly more logically) be stray ink that was not intentionally placed on the book, but is there nonetheless.

The very first slab I owned was an Action #29 CGC 4.0  The label stated a small amount of dried glue on the cover.  I always figured a kid was using it as a mat for an art and craft project.

[The Lions Den]

54 minutes ago, TappanZee said:

Speculation about my veracity or motives is fair, and maybe even expected, but it's ultimately just meaningless chatter in the ether.   

I sincerely apologize; I'm not questioning your integrity. I actually do believe you're telling the truth, but at CGC they hear this kind of story every day. I sincerely hope it all works out for you, and I wish you the best of luck...  

[Dylan.]

Maybe it was unrestored and CGC made a mistake! I mean they are not PERFECT

[Dylan.]

Just now, dylanthekid said:

Maybe it was unrestored and CGC made a mistake! I mean they are not PERFECT

but the odds are VERY slim

[Dylan.]

1 hour ago, seanfingh said:

I purchased a large lot of Warren Magazines from an original owner. He kept them in amazing shape. Many of them came back after being signed 9.6. One of them came back 9.6 Purple and it was determined that there was a dot of ballpoint pen ink on the cover. The only real explanation was that at some point either the newsstand, the OO or myself dropped a ball point pen on the cover. At the time I was having it reviewed, I asked whether they were analyzing whether the ink was damage, or whether it was attempted CT - my thought  being that if it didn't clearly appear to be done to improve the looks of the book, then it should just be plain old damage. At the time they were pretty adamant that they were not in the business of making value judgments about stray ink. I thought that was kind of interesting at the time.  I tell that story because most of the posts are assuming that someone engaged in CT actively, when it could just as easily (and possibly more logically) be stray ink that was not intentionally placed on the book, but is there nonetheless.

this is the SAME argument I made about those 3 character label books.

[seanfingh]

2 minutes ago, dylanthekid said:

this is the SAME argument I made about those 3 character label books.

Cool beans?

[Sensei Ryan]

Edited December 28, 2020 by Sensei Ryan

[badback83]

Here we go again. 

[B2D327]

You can always crack it open and look at the interior of the cover edge to see if there’s any “bleed through”; proof positive of color touch. 298, 299 and 301 all have white covers so the need to color in any spine wear on those books isn’t really an issue.

[TappanZee]

20 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I sincerely apologize; I'm not questioning your integrity. I actually do believe you're telling the truth, but at CGC they hear this kind of story every day. I sincerely hope it all works out for you, and I wish you the best of luck...  

Fair enough. I appreciate the apology, and sorry if I overreacted. Like I said, this is all new to me, and so far it hasn't been very pleasant.

At the end of day, if it's not resolved to my satisfaction, all I've lost is some time, a bit of money, and a day's worth of aggravation (assuming they sent the right book back to me). The comic can go right back into my long box and my kids can deal with it when I shuffle off this mortal coil.

[Topnotchman]

8 minutes ago, TappanZee said:

Fair enough. I appreciate the apology, and sorry if I overreacted. Like I said, this is all new to me, and so far it hasn't been very pleasant.

At the end of day, if it's not resolved to my satisfaction, all I've lost is some time, a bit of money, and a day's worth of aggravation (assuming they sent the right book back to me). The comic can go right back into my long box and my kids can deal with it when I shuffle off this mortal coil.

Your not able to identify if the comic in the slab is your original book?