Part 2: A-Level Panel Page Valuations by Artist/Run 7 7

[sfilosa]

Quality can be "artistic" or "nostalgic" . One can argue that Steve Ditko's Amazing Spider-Man art work is not as detailed/refined as many more modern artist, but the content is "quality off the charts". The first appearance of a character can be drawn by a less than top notch artist, but that page is going to sell much better than almost any other page, regardless of the artist.

 

[vodou]

1 hour ago, sfilosa said:

Quality can be "artistic" or "nostalgic" .

Says you; not me.

[sfilosa]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Says you; not me.

So you are saying that we should value OA only on it's artistic quality? Obviously, almost anyone who collects Comic Book OA is valuing the content as much if not more than the actual artistic quality. Spider-Man/X-Men art sells for much more in general than a non Marvel brand even when its the same artist. 

Maybe I should have been more clear in my wording of "quality". I'm not using it only to mean how the art looks, but the quality "content" of the page. Herb Trimpe Hulk pages without Wolverine usually sells well below five figures. But the first appearance sold for over $600k. Quality (or lack of) the actual artwork didn't matter.

[Will_K]

4 hours ago, GreatEscape said:

I'm still trying to grasp what's happening in the marketplace and certainly not one to criticize record prices-- heck, a good portion of my collection were top of market purchases over the years--  but the Wonder Woman #231 (1977) cover selling for $25k blew away my expectations and comparable prices.   Mike Nasser and Vince Colletta don't normally realize prices anywhere close, and surely not together. During the past 3 years, the next highest WW covers sold by HA would be $22k (Perez), $10.8k (Bolland), $9k (Infantino) and $8k (Sekowsky).  During same period, Nasser covers sold for $16k (ASM) and $9k (Defenders), both those also reflect a Marvel premium to DC art.   Nasser's highest priced piece among CAF-tracked dealers is $2800 for a Superboy title splash.  Any thoughts / insights would be appreciated as I'm looking to buy a WW cover (preferably Buckler 70s or Perez 80s) sometime soon.  Thx

I'm a big, big Mike Nasser fan.  I didn't even bid on it.  But $25K blows me away.  It's not THAT great a cover.  I think even Mike would agree.  And... y'know... Colletta inks.  But the market is the market.

In general, I think 70's Wonder Woman covers are really scarce.  Also, there are those Golden Age characters on that cover.

BTW... If anyone's got Mike Nasser's full figure drawing that appeared on the cover of The Amazing World of DC Comics #15, I'm your guy.

[heartened]

On 4/5/2021 at 4:50 PM, Bill C said:

All I know is I look forward to developments in this thread over the next year or so.

Me too.  I and others have been offered some big amounts for top tier art, but these are often the rarest of the rare examples that require the multiple of price we mentioned in the firs post.  In other words, the truly exceptional pages will blow by these numbers often in multiples.  That seems to be "what's new" in my opinion - that people are forking over more these days to pry things loose (or to TRY and pry things loose).  Rarity has finally become the most important factor, as a lot of the classic best art from key runs or artists has been gobbled up into black holds (for the most part) over the past few decades.

[TeddieMercede]

Yikes.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/erik-larsen-spider-man-23-story-page-18-original-art-marvel-1992-/a/122121-17920.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

[Rick2you2]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:29 PM, heartened said:

... my opinion - that people are forking over more these days to pry things loose (or to TRY and pry things loose).  Rarity has finally become the most important factor, as a lot of the classic best art from key runs or artists has been gobbled up into black holds (for the most part) over the past few decades.

Which should be flashing a warning sign on prices. People will eventually look at what the price is, realize they can have a very good Byrne piece without an X-man or other high flying figure on it, at a relatively low price, and shift their line of sight. Nostalgia and rarity have their limits—particularly when we can now go on vacations and out to dinner again without fear. I don’t think this is the big bubble about to burst, but some air is going to come out of the tires.

[jjonahjameson11]

8 hours ago, TeddieMercede said:

Yikes.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/erik-larsen-spider-man-23-story-page-18-original-art-marvel-1992-/a/122121-17920.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

I am not making light of mental health issues, but this is insane!

[sfilosa]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

Which should be flashing a warning sign on prices. People will eventually look at what the price is, realize they can have a very good Byrne piece without an X-man or other high flying figure on it, at a relatively low price, and shift their line of sight. Nostalgia and rarity have their limits—particularly when we can now go on vacations and out to dinner again without fear. I don’t think this is the big bubble about to burst, but some air is going to come out of the tires.

Have to disagree. Never happens that way. Quality (e.g. in this case the X-Men) wins out. There is plenty of Byrne art that isn't that expensive. And been that way for years, and will most likely stay that way. Not to say that some of his lesser art can't increase or become more in demand, just don't think it will have any effect on his "best" art. Once again, just doesn't work that way. 

 

[Andahaion]

On 4/5/2021 at 1:15 PM, vodou said:

"not quality" represents about 95% of all comic art that's ever existed

This goes through my head every time I buy OA, or other fine art because it's certainly applicable to the greater art world holistically.  I like to think it helps me focus and try to pick the good stuff.  Does it work?  Maybe 5% of the time.  

[sfilosa]

23 minutes ago, Andahaion said:

This goes through my head every time I buy OA, or other fine art because it's certainly applicable to the greater art world holistically.  I like to think it helps me focus and try to pick the good stuff.  Does it work?  Maybe 5% of the time.  

Much longer topic to discuss but:

Quality in Original Comic Art can be many things. If you are only judging quality on "artistic craftmanship" well, not sure even 5% would qualify. But when I think of "quality", it's the totality of what that page/picture represents. I would agree that many Silver-Age Marvel pages are not always the best representation of craftmanship, but many pages represent "quality" in terms of what they "mean/create feeling of nostalgia" to collectors.   Said even more simplistically, the first appearance of a character does not mean it is the best "artistic page" but it will almost always be worth more than another page that has more artistic quality.

[vodou]

13 minutes ago, sfilosa said:

Quality in Original Comic Art can be many things. If you are only judging quality on "artistic craftmanship" well, not sure even 5% would qualify. But when I think of "quality", it's the totality of what that page/picture represents. I would agree that many Silver-Age Marvel pages are not always the best representation of craftmanship, but many pages represent "quality" in terms of what they "mean/create feeling of nostalgia" to collectors.   Said even more simplistically, the first appearance of a character does not mean it is the best "artistic page" but it will almost always be worth more than another page that has more artistic quality.

Works for me, but let's stop calling it art then 

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, sfilosa said:

Much longer topic to discuss but:

Quality in Original Comic Art can be many things. If you are only judging quality on "artistic craftmanship" well, not sure even 5% would qualify. But when I think of "quality", it's the totality of what that page/picture represents. I would agree that many Silver-Age Marvel pages are not always the best representation of craftmanship, but many pages represent "quality" in terms of what they "mean/create feeling of nostalgia" to collectors.   Said even more simplistically, the first appearance of a character does not mean it is the best "artistic page" but it will almost always be worth more than another page that has more artistic quality.

I take a very different view: I distinguish between “quality” and “desirability.” I would say the majority of pieces that are published by the Big Two are quality pieces, in that the anatomical work is appropriately blown out of proportion, characters move sorta realistically, and the artist moved the story along, with the better ones using various tricks of the trade to add emphasis or interest where appropriate. But, I don’t necessarily want to buy it if it doesn’t trigger nostalgia or has a dull subject matter. That’s a matter of desirability, particularly where the artist is a name artist. Different people like different things, allowing for prices to be based on the latter, not the former. 

[stinkininkin]

On 5/28/2021 at 4:00 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

On 5/27/2021 at 7:26 PM, TeddieMercede said:

Yikes.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/erik-larsen-spider-man-23-story-page-18-original-art-marvel-1992-/a/122121-17920.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

I am not making light of mental health issues, but this is insane!

Hmmm, I missed this. In light of this turn in the market it might be prudent for me to dig through my closet and start pulling out my Eric Larsen Punisher pages I inked! Baby needs new shoes, and shoes aint cheap! 

[stinkininkin]

6 hours ago, Bill C said:

21 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Hmmm, I missed this. In light of this turn in the market it might be prudent for me to dig through my closet and start pulling out my Eric Larsen Punisher pages I inked! Baby needs new shoes, and shoes aint cheap! 

Obviously not apples to apples, but there's a Larsen ASM page with Punisher in the current HA. So there'll be another data point (of a sort) soon.

Larsen ASM pages will probably always be more desirable than his Punisher pages, but with this crazy art market, well, I'm going with the rising tide lifting all boats theory and taking it to the bank! 

[Drummy]

Stinkininkin is on his way, folks!  (Ride those rising tides!)

[Stefanomjr]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:58 PM, O. said:

$3-5k

Capullo - Batman

Murphy, Sean - White Knight

 

IMO  the upper range on Sean Murphy White Knight needs to be increased by minimum 20% max 60%

[heartened]

On 6/6/2021 at 10:59 PM, stinkininkin said:

Larsen ASM pages will probably always be more desirable than his Punisher pages, but with this crazy art market, well, I'm going with the rising tide lifting all boats theory and taking it to the bank! 

we can wait and see where these should end up on the list.  Yup, interesting times!

[Unstoppablejayd]

On 1/2/2021 at 2:15 PM, delekkerste said:

Yeah, but would you take multiple pages at $9,999? Because that's a lot different than taking multiple pages at $5-6K.  There may not be many/any A-level Smith X-Men pages available at the lower end of the $5-10K range anymore.  But, there are probably not any A pages at the upper end of the $10-$20K range either (those few that would sell at that price would more realistically be called A+++ pages).  The reality is that PMS UXM, like several/numerous others on the list, is probably straddling the line between two categories - either at the high end of the lower bracket or the low end of the higher bracket.

I think in a lot of cases here, people are glomming on to sales of extraordinary examples, or things that certain people are dying to acquire and would pay over the odds for (but, which are not necessarily indicative of generalized fair market value). In fact, me and Hari were on a Zoom call last night with a friend/Boardie who said he thought some of these prices on the list were too low because he's itching to pick up certain examples and would pay more for them than the prices on this list.  But, the problem is, if you take him - literally one person - out of the equation, those higher price levels very well may no longer be realistic.  Not every good BWS Weapon X page is going to be $60K+ and not every good Larsen ASM page is going to be $30K+ even though there have been recent sales there of both, which is why putting them in the next tier down makes sense, IMO. 

I think we have to strike a balance here and recognize that there can and will be deviances from these levels - both higher and lower - depending on the quality of the piece in question and who may be willing to pay over market in the near-term to get an example.  

I think its broken... (and hopefully congrats!)

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/paul-smith-and-bob-wiacek-x-men-172-page-7-original-art-marvel-1983-/a/122124-13956.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

 

[stinkininkin]

Sorry to be "that guy", but I'm thinking this list is probably in need of an update based on general current trends (and I say this as someone who thinks the Secret Wars 3+ million sale was a total outlier). But yeah, have at it...