Why do comics missing pages get high grades? 1 1

[William-James88]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:28 PM, JayBees said:

 A missing Marvel Stamp I might swing at the right price, but top dollar for a comic missing an entire page is disaster to me.

I don't think anyone is paying the same amount for a comic that is missing a page and the same comic not missing a page.

[theCapraAegagrus]

5 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Call The Cops said:

Perfect example:

Yes, it is a perfect example, and very helpful...

[ThothAmon]

Not sure what’s worse a low grade blue label of an otherwise much higher grade book or a green label (of death).     Lately I’ve chosen the blue label but I think for the money CGC should give both. 
 

[theCapraAegagrus]

"Cover detached from top staple" is not a 9.6, so yes, it is a perfect example of how the Qualified label is abused.

[the blob]

very simple. if you are looking for a beautiful copy in a slab and don't mind an ad page missing, the green is great for you. It's interesting though. early, rare, GA, folks are more accepting of this sort of thing, heck, even not so rare, not so early, GA. I used to sell ugly 40s Fawcetts and DCs missing wraps for full guide "Fair", sometimes better, fully disclosed. admittedly, "fair" OPG was a pretty reasonable number for these books (often $10-20), but if I paid $1-2, I was happy.

[the blob]

55 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Not sure what’s worse a low grade blue label of an otherwise much higher grade book or a green label (of death).     Lately I’ve chosen the blue label but I think for the money CGC should give both. 
 

CGC gives 2.5s and 3.0s to comics with big chunks out of the cover, so a missing MVS with a 2.0 kind of makes sense.

[The Lions Den]

48 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

"Cover detached from top staple" is not a 9.6, so yes, it is a perfect example of how the Qualified label is abused.

Somehow I feel like we've had this same conversation before...  

[the blob]

5 minutes ago, Call The Cops said:

You're arguing against your own point. You are correct that the book is not a 9.6 and CGC agrees. It would be a 9.6 if not detached at the top staple. This is an example of where the Qualified label works just fine.

I personally would like them to put both grades on the label, but that's too much work for CGC and would be too confusing for the Newbs who don't read labels. 

Agree on both grades. But I do see the value in letting someone know what it would be without this specific thing going on.  But why is a popped staple treated differently than a crease? I'm having trouble figuring out why they think something is Green or not.

 

[ThothAmon]

33 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Somehow I feel like we've had this same conversation before...  

It’s ok. You’re never too old to have the same conversation for the umpteenth time. Just feel lucky you still remember having it before. 

[The Lions Den]

17 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

It’s ok. You’re never too old to have the same conversation for the umpteenth time. Just feel lucky you still remember having it before. 

 

[Roger66]

The bottom line (as stated by other informative Boardies here) is  you MUST READ THE GRADER'S LABEL  and get a true feel if not better understanding of what you want to collect.  I personally loathe incomplete copies for example and stay away from them like the plague but their value is ever-increasing as complete copies become out of reach for the average consumer.  There are unscrupulous comic sellers, who purposely IMO keep the small print on the CGC label blurry or hard to read - so as to 'innocently' lure the unknowing / unsuspecting into bidding or buying outright.  In the end would you buy a used car for say 5k without checking under the hood or bringing your mechanic if needed?  Thus educate yourself and get a strong understanding about what you want to collect and also resale values.  It amazes me how unfortunately and willingly naïve (to be polite) some Buyers are.   When buying certain books you need to also ask yourself what is the resale value because again IMO green label or not - incomplete copies, detached staple(s), chunks out of pages or missing a value-stamp are fundamental problems with most books (more so the common ones) and I think will be a big knock on the day you decide to sell or trade it.  My 2-cents.  

[The Lions Den]

55 minutes ago, the blob said:

Agree on both grades. But I do see the value in letting someone know what it would be without this specific thing going on.  But why is a popped staple treated differently than a crease? I'm having trouble figuring out why they think something is Green or not.

 

The bottom line is that this is supposed to help people make better decisions before they buy, sell or trade a book. By Qualifying the grade of the book, CGC is making it known that the book has a problem or irregularity which may not be easy to recognize while the book is in the holder. I think of it as a "heads-up", not a "thumbs-down."  

[The Lions Den]

16 minutes ago, Roger66 said:

The bottom line (as stated by other informative Boardies here) is  you MUST READ THE GRADER'S LABEL  and get a true feel if not better understanding of what you want to collect.  I personally loathe incomplete copies for example and stay away from them like the plague but their value is ever-increasing as complete copies become out of reach for the average consumer.  There are unscrupulous comic sellers, who purposely IMO keep the small print on the CGC label blurry or hard to read - so as to 'innocently' lure the unknowing / unsuspecting into bidding or buying outright.  In the end would you buy a used car for say 5k without checking under the hood or bringing your mechanic if needed?  Thus educate yourself and get a strong understanding about what you want to collect and also resale values.  It amazes me how unfortunately and willingly naïve (to be polite) some Buyers are.   When buying certain books you need to also ask yourself what is the resale value because again IMO green label or not - incomplete copies, detached staple(s), chunks out of pages or missing a value-stamp are fundamental problems with most books (more so the common ones) and I think will be a big knock on the day you decide to sell or trade it.  My 2-cents.  

[HuddyBee]

Didn't Overstreet used to allow books the grade of 1.0 for having a non-story page or centerfold missing? I could be incorrect, but if so does CGC still adhere to this, or am I completely off?

[Lightning55]

5 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

"Cover detached from top staple" is not a 9.6, so yes, it is a perfect example of how the Qualified label is abused.

Let's face it - it's an awkward thing.  Nice book, some significant funky problem, what do you do with it?

Maybe they're ALL qualified.  As in "this 4.0 would be a 9.6 if it didn't have that 6" diagonal crease".  In this 4.0/9.6 scenario, there is no text on the label that "excuses" the crease and calls it a 9.6 green qualified.  It's grade is adjusted for the defect. 

So why not the detached top staple being the same as a half inch tear anywhere else on the cover?  It's wear, just like any other cover or page tear, just like the 6" inch diagonal crease.  But one book is blue, the other green.

Certainly a page missing entirely is incomplete, but if we're lucky enough that it's an ad page, that's ok (???)

If you didn't have Qualified grades, when the page counter sees the missing value stamp, it's game over.  The comic is a 0.5 incomplete, slap a label on it, don't even bother to look at the rest of it - it's irrelevant.  Easy money - $20+ to check the pages.  I guess you could make a lot of grader notes to justify the fee, but nah.

Maybe there needs to be a specific grade drop, as a %, for different significant "problems".  It can't be a numeric value drop, like take 6.0 off of the apparent grade for a missing value stamp, because you might be deducting it from a 5.0 book.  Can't have negative grades - or can we?  hmmm

When submitting, I think we should be able to choose which method appeals to us more, higher green or lower blue.  We are the ones paying for the grade, and both are correct if properly executed.  It's your book.  If someone doesn't like it, wishes it was different, they can pony up the money to redo it.  More money for CGC.  The same book could get graded over and over - blue, green, blue, green, etc.  It's a windfall.  Just like a car gets taxed every time it's sold.  Our gross national product could double just due to re-grading.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Lightning55

[Gaard]

Would it be acceptable to give the book it's actual grade in a blue label, but keep the notation "missing MVS" (or whatever)? That way, the book doesn't have any of this made-up grade nonsense, but still gives collector's that info.

 

"The bottom line is that this is supposed to help people make better decisions before they buy, sell or trade a book."

LD, it's nice that CGC is looking out for me, but for years now, I've been under the impression that CGC doesn't concern itself with the aftermarket.

 

btw - can you tell that I have no idea how to do that thing where you put a @ in front of a name.

[Lightning55]

32 minutes ago, Gaard said:

btw - can you tell that I have no idea how to do that thing where you put a @ in front of a name.

In your post, as soon as you type the @ symbol with a letter behind it, there's a pop up that lets you select from names starting like that.  The more letters you type, it filters out non-matching until you see the name you want displayed.

[ThothAmon]

I posted photos of two books earlier in this thread missing parts of the interior, one of which was a IH 181 missing its MVS. I requested blue labels and received a 2.0 on the 181 last week. Label does note it’s missing the mvs. 

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Gaard said:

LD, it's nice that CGC is looking out for me, but for years now, I've been under the impression that CGC doesn't concern itself with the aftermarket.

Actually, I was always under the impression that CGC will try to do what they can to help the books sell. That may have been the initial concept of the Qualified label to begin with...