Information on 'Blue Line' pages

[wenson-migration]

I'm pretty new to collecting OA. I've only been collecting since this past Christmas and I have a question or two.

 

The first couple of pages that I bought, I could see the artists pencil lines underneath the inker's work.

 

But the next couple of pages I bought had blue lines underneath the inker's work. Which I thought was odd.

 

1. What are the blue lines?

2. Do the pages that I have with blue lines mean that technically I only have the inker's work and not the penciller's work as well.

3. If the answer to question #3 is that I only have the inker's work. Does that mean that the pencils to that page exist somewhere?

4. Could there potentially be two owners of the same page out there somewhere? One who owns the pencils only and one who owns the inked over blue line page?

5. Does owning an inked over blue line page affect it's worth?

 

I've sent an email to the inker who did one of the 'blue' pages that I bought hoping that he could shed some light on the subject, but haven't heard from him.

 

Your wisdom would be greatly appreciated

[rob_react]

It could just be blue pencil. Some people pencil in non photo blue pencil. Is it a little greasy feeling? If that's the case, it's just like any other piece of art and there's only the one.

 

It could also be a blue line printout of the scanned pencils which was then inked over. A newish trend is for inkers to work off of scans (saves a lot of money in postage and prevents pages from getting lost in the mail- that just happened to me by the way.) In that case, there are two ways for the inker to go- either working on a clean board on a lightbox (that's what I do) or printing the pages out in non photo blue and inking over the printout. In both cases there are two pieces of art. The uninked pencils and the inks.

[wenson-migration]

Yikes. So it's possible to purchase a page that the penciller has never even touched? Is it rude to ask the inker if the page includes the penciller's work before you buy it? What happens to the pencil only page? I'm guessing the pencil page is the one you want to get then?

 

Your post gave me so many other questions!

[rob_react]

Really, the inker or his rep should let you know beforehand if it's lightboxed or over blue line printouts.

[wenson-migration]

I've contacted the inker and asked him about the process that he used to ink the pages I bought from him.

 

On two of the pages, I think that it's the scan method that you talked about. Because the Marvel Logo and the page lines are present, but in blue. And the Marvel logo looks washed-out a little.

 

On the third page that I've got from him, the Marvel logo and page lines seem to be the same as my pencilled pages (greenish Marvel logo, greenish lines) but has blue penciller lines.

 

I'll wait to hear back from him and see what he says.

 

Next time I buy a page though, I'll be sure to ask if it's lightboxed or over a printout. Thanks for your help.

[Thomas]

Really, the inker or his rep should let you know beforehand if it's lightboxed or over blue line printouts.

 

I agree with this 100% and would feel cheated if I purchased some inks only which weren't clearly stipulated as such before money changed hands.

[falderal-migration]

Dang, I didn't know that they were doing that now. The only post 1990 OA I have was purchased from the penciler so I guess I'm good.

[irchooker]

Then there is the traditional Blue Lines', colour plates typically used in painted art work, which may lead to a confusion of terms.

 

Blue pencil, sure that's common, but I've never purchased a Blue Line inked piece. I find it interesting that you can see the blue.

[wenson-migration]

Hey Rob,

 

Thanks for helping me out with this one. I sent out a general email to the inker before I received your information and didn't hear from him. After sending him a second email directly asking him if he was inking over blue pencil or a hi-res blue-line scan he responded.

 

The pages that were in question were inked over a hi-res scan which means that the sister piece is out there somewhere. I've contacted the penciller to see if I can match up one or two of the pages that I have to complete the pair.

 

Just wanted to say thanks.

[RDK]

This raises an interesting question about the nature of comic book art, at least in cases where it is inked over a blue-line scan. Would one still consider an inked page (by an inker) a work of original art created by the penciler? Would you place more value on the un-inked pencils than on the inked pages? Or on the inked pages because those are actually closer to the finished product?

 

It's weird because original comic book art was always such a unique artistic process. We generally valued the penciler more than the inker, but accepted that it was a collaborative process and that the original artwork was directly worked on by both. But now the process is split, with original pencils and original inks often done on seperate sheets of paper. And now that lettering is often done seperately as well, it kind of takes away from the original art feel of the piece and suggests (to me at least) that it's all just "work parts." I dunno...

[wenson-migration]

RDK,

 

It's interesting that you posted that because in the email that the inker sent me, he mentioned the same thing. His exact words were,

 

"....however do to the unique process there are two original works (pencils and inks). It can be argued as to which holds a greater value."

 

Now, I'm going to assume that he wrote that for a couple of reasons. One, is that obviously he's going to put a high value on the work that he's put into the page, and rightly so. And two, he wants to reassure me that what I bought from him holds some value.

 

Personally, I like the look of an inked page. I really like Wieringo's art but am hesitant to pick up a current piece from him because it's pencilled only. But I don't like the idea of owning a piece that the artist hasn't really touched, which in essence an inked over scan is, and the next time I buy, I'll be more careful in asking the right questions.

 

Hopefully, the artist will get back to me and I can get the pencils to one of my pages.

[Thomas]

This raises an interesting question about the nature of comic book art, at least in cases where it is inked over a blue-line scan. Would one still consider an inked page (by an inker) a work of original art created by the penciler? Would you place more value on the un-inked pencils than on the inked pages? Or on the inked pages because those are actually closer to the finished product?

 

I really wanted a page of Kirby's Super Powers until I found out that his hand never touched the inked pages. That totally turned me off and I have no desire to own a page now.

 

Same thing goes for pencil only pieces, I really have no desire to own one as they can easily smudge or fade if not sprayed with a fixative which I doubt they are. Plus they are by no means finished works what with most shaded areas having little x's in them and such.

 

I do think that a seller selling inked only pages should make it very clear that is what you are receiving though and find it deceitful if they don't.

[pkveronese]

 

Personally, I like the look of an inked page. I really like Wieringo's art but am hesitant to pick up a current piece from him because it's pencilled only. But I don't like the idea of owning a piece that the artist hasn't really touched, which in essence an inked over scan is, and the next time I buy, I'll be more careful in asking the right questions.

 

 

I totally agree, especially in the case with Wieringo. Overall, I LOVE his work. His recent stuff (pencils only) isn't very nice to look at at all, esspecially with all the x's (and even wiht his own website having to give two scans "the regular one and one iwht "enhanced detail"). Its definitely a turn-off.

 

As for the OA world in general, I really, really hate this trend of the separately inked work. I still value the penciller's work more, so I would have a hard time justifying a high price on a page that has only been worked on by the inker. Also, I don't care much for the other half of this dichotomy, wherein you have the penciler's work separate as well. I hope this is a trend that does not continue. The marriage of the actual work of the penciler and the inker is necessary in my mind. Other wise you have to own 2 pieces - or worse yet - the other "half" of your piece is floating around somewhere. It kinda seems to me that this would discredit the "one of a kind" nature of most OA.

[Ares]

I have a Page from Green Lantern Rebirth That is with blue line inks.

using blue line ink to draw alows you to draw where special effects will be placed but will not show up when pages are scanned for colouring.

 

Kind of Like using a green background for certain special effects in movies

[RDK]

I understand that the artists are doing this for convenience sake, but I wonder if they'll return to the "old" way if their OA sales go down?

 

I'm with you guys on the 'ringo art. I was looking for a page of his FF, but didn't like the pencil-only bit.

[rob_react]

I hope this is a trend that does not continue.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath. I MOSTLY ink from scans (on a lightbox). Now, at the level I'm working at the cost of postage is more of a factor than it would be for Marvel, etc. but there are also considerable time/convenience benefits to working in this method.

 

I will say that the collaboration is actually cleaner and produces nicer looking finished pages than the traditional method. That and I don't have to spend hours erasing pencils...

[Thomas]

I have a Page from Green Lantern Rebirth That is with blue line inks.

using blue line ink to draw alows you to draw where special effects will be placed but will not show up when pages are scanned for colouring.

 

Kind of Like using a green background for certain special effects in movies

 

Blue line pencils and blue lined photocopies are totally different. I have some pages where the artist used a blue line pencil and the ink was inked directly on top of that. I think this is absolutely fine.

 

I think what everyone (myself included) is having an issue with is when the penciller scans his art and sends it electronically to the inker who then prints it out on his printer in blue line and inks on that. This causes two pieces of art floating around as well as never owning the piece that the penciller layed his hands on.

 

I too haven't bought any pencilled only Wieringo pages in the hopes that he may see a decline in sales and go back to having inked pages. I hope other artists follow suit although I seriously doubt that trend is going to stop anytime soon.

[*paull*]

Pencils only vs. pencils with below average inks? I'd take the pencil only any day. In fact, I'd take pencil only over pencil and ink if the inker isn't someone of note.

[rob_react]

Pencils only vs. pencils with below average inks? I'd take the pencil only any day. In fact, I'd take pencil only over pencil and ink if the inker isn't someone of note.

 

Even true "production" pencils with "x"s for filled in blacks and the like?

[*paull*]

Yes, absolutely.