Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safes
14 14

220 posts in this topic

21,165 posts
Everyone knows that slabbed books still age/oxidize, they can still suffer from moisture damage, the effects of UV light can still harm the book through its shell, etc., but so long as you don't open that slab the grade is still valid... that is the credo here isn't it??

 

So the trick is to not open the slab and invalidate the grade, right? Just pass the slabbed book on to the next sucker. If the buyer opens the slab to inspect the book, bam!, instant invalid grade and the seller is off the hook (as well as CGC).

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif .... I sense a presence that is familiar here. grin.gif

 

A presence I have not felt since....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16,446 posts

Sorry to hear that Bruce. I hope your other books are ok. flowerred.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,338 posts

I have heard of people ironing their money, that has been stored in a safe. If your comics are raw, you can just simply iron them once every month or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33,630 posts
Everyone knows that slabbed books still age/oxidize, they can still suffer from moisture damage, the effects of UV light can still harm the book through its shell, etc., but so long as you don't open that slab the grade is still valid... that is the credo here isn't it??

 

So the trick is to not open the slab and invalidate the grade, right? Just pass the slabbed book on to the next sucker. If the buyer opens the slab to inspect the book, bam!, instant invalid grade and the seller is off the hook (as well as CGC).

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif .... I sense a presence that is familiar here. grin.gif

 

A presence I have not felt since....

 

Two days ago? confused-smiley-013.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

Apparantly, I'm not as bright as "everyone" else gifflefunk.

 

I knew the slabs allow for air exchange to some degree, but was under the impression that the CGC slab served as a barrier (to varying degrees) against other elemental threats (moisture, acids, off-gasing) with exception to light since archival materials are used to consruct it and 2 sheets of microcamber paper are inserted also. There is also, on record, the "Greg Manning Auctions Flood" years back in which a great many CGC books were clearly exposed a serious amount of mositure (some submerged I believe?) and the CGC slabs held the water out. Knowing that, its hard to imagine enough moisture within a safe getting through a CGC slab to cause rust. As far as I know, none of those Manning books has show up after the fact with rust damage.

 

Obviously, I never considered that there would be significant enough mositure within the safe (and also able to penetrate the slab) to pose a problem to a CGC book. It could turn out that the chemical has more to do with this. Either way its my lesson learned the hard way. If further research into the nature of the chemical reveals it to be far more corrosive than the consumer is lead to believe, then maybe I have other options... who knows.

 

As to your other point, there's not even a small chance that I would sell these books in an attempt to hide the damage from someone else and escape the financial loss. I also think most serious CGC collectors realize that the label grade is NOT always what the book is due to mishandling (SCS damage) and now we can add rust damage to the list... regardless of the slab being opened or not.

 

Everyone knows that slabbed books still age/oxidize, they can still suffer from moisture damage, the effects of UV light can still harm the book through its shell, etc., but so long as you don't open that slab the grade is still valid... that is the credo here isn't it??

 

So the trick is to not open the slab and invalidate the grade, right? Just pass the slabbed book on to the next sucker. If the buyer opens the slab to inspect the book, bam!, instant invalid grade and the seller is off the hook (as well as CGC).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

Dont' be sad Paul, at least you were alerted before any damage was done.

 

I have to buy a new safe this weekend... frown.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

Common knowledge, eh?... some of you guys are really making me feel much better.

 

There's a much higher humidity level here in NJ than in other places in the US. I thought humidity levels vary and did not mean that even significant differences (ie. NJ vs. Colorodo) would lead to deterioration very quickly. Over many, many years... yes. It was my understanding that a "stable" environment where reasonable (not even ideal/perfect) storage conditions existed, and did not vary much, was the most secure. I figured the environment within the Safe (its not called a "risk") would be even more ideal than out of it.

 

I also had silica gel packs within, but did not realize they needed to be changed... my fault again. Even so, I did not even think them important and just had them there because they came with the safe. Also consider the safe proclaimed itself to be ideal for paper products of any kind.

 

 

I don't own a safe, but I use one frequently at work. I had thought it fairly common knowledge that a metal safe in not a dry environment. Most safes owners utilize silica gel packets to absorb moisture/humidity. More silica gel would be needed based upon the interior size of the safe in question. I don't know about the life of such packets, but I would recommend changing them regularly.

 

It sounds like the 2 collectors in the example did not take such precautions and paid the price for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18,761 posts

you think this is more prevalent with the "fire=proof" safes that utilize chemicals of some sort? I checked my comics in my safe and saw most of my books had shiny staples and a few with darker staples. Course most staples are real hard to see inside slabs... and, I have no idea what condition the staples were in when I placed them in the safe......

 

this is scary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

Good point. If guns are that sensitive I'm not sure how everyone is to assume any metal is at risk. The manual did not specifically mention the reason for firearm exclusion was rust (although I'm sure many of you familiar with guns may have concluded that).

 

It also excluded ammunition in the same paragraph. Guns "could" have ammunition in them. Some could deduce that the real risk was explosive materials (bullets), not metal. The word "rust" or "risk of rust" is nowhere in the manual. Had I seen a specific mention of rust, I may have looked into it further. I was/am still not aware at what point humidity/moisture levels pose a threat to comic staples. For all I knew/know the humidity levels within my house here in NJ were more condusive to rust than whatever mositure level was present within the safe. At one point a few years ago (when James Rudd raise the topic), I ran a dehumidifyer in my comic office to see what was what. It pulled a surprising amount of moisture out of the air. I could not even imagine a thimble's worth in the safe.

 

 

Gun safes don't seem to have this problem. Guns will rust in a heartbeat, especially older guns.

True but your average gun owner knows to keep guns well oiled. This can make all the difference between rust and no rust even in higher humidity. I don't know of any comic collectors who oil the staples of their comics. Well maybe that guy who is selling the X-men #1.(See personal lube thread in general. Insert puking graemlin here)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

All 4 books are still slabbed, I did not see any reason to open them... just remove them from the safe.

 

I don't agree that the warning about firearms is clear to all to mean "risk of rust". As mentioned above, one could assume that the real warning was against storing explosives/ammunition... which could be "in" the gun being stored.

 

Bruce,

 

Sorry to hear about this. Just to be clear, all 3 books are still slabbed? And you are able to detect rust?

 

In retrospect, the warning as to firearms would appear to include all ferrous metals, regardless of use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,214 posts

Geez, that just blows Bruce. Without this thread, I might've made the same mistake too. Hopefully the other 3 books can be saved. 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

1174902-Hulk182TopStaple.jpg

 

 

crazy.gifsorry.gif

1174902-Hulk182TopStaple.jpg.914c236d5f0d6bda3f390f152dc9b55c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

insert graemlin of 40 year old man sobbing

 

Thankfully the other 3 are nowhere similar to this... just a few flecks worth.

893crossfingers-thumb.gif hopefully... no biggie to wipe off 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

Yes, since the fellow that first reported this had 2 safes...1 fireproof, the other not. The CGC books in the non-fireproof safe were fine back then. Steve called the guy back after hearing about my misfortune and I believe the other fellow reported that his CGC comics still within the non fireproof safe to be OK.

 

Aman, if your safe is fire-resistant or fireproof... get your books the [embarrassing lack of self control but understandable if one of your prized comics suffered a fate like that poor Hulk 182] out of there until we know more. I'd hate to see anyone else's prized comics meet a similar fate.

 

 

 

you think this is more prevalent with the "fire=proof" safes that utilize chemicals of some sort? I checked my comics in my safe and saw most of my books had shiny staples and a few with darker staples. Course most staples are real hard to see inside slabs... and, I have no idea what condition the staples were in when I placed them in the safe......

 

this is scary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,170 posts

No...not yet and not for the reason some will conclude. As stated, regardless of what happens with those 3 books i will practice "full disclosure" when and if they are ever sold if the "rust wiping" is succesfull enough to maintain the current grade or even if a blue label downgrade occurs.

 

Right now, I'm resolved to having (1) comic funeral... for the Hulk 182. The body is decomposing (like the staples) no hope. The other 3 books are in the hospital with a 80-20 shot at surviving (in my mind at least). To speak their names in the same conversation with the deceased Hulk 182 would be too much for me to handle just now. Until i speak with the doctors (Steve & Chris)... I remain optimistic they will survive.

 

You have my word that no relevant information about my books will be kept a secret regardless of the outcome.

 

 

 

Care to mention the other 3?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53,189 posts
Top Staple... this is very painful to observe

 

 

1174902-Hulk182TopStaple.jpg

 

 

crazy.gifsorry.gif

893whatthe.gif I thought you were talking about FLECKS of rust, which even then would be unusual on such "young" comics. This looks like some parasitic infection! Man, I am totally bummed for you.

 

How are the covers? It's hard to believe that much moisture hasn't affected them in some way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
14 14