Jonah Hex: The First Bronze Age Anti-hero?

[bronze johnny]

Fellow Forumites, the rise of the "anti-hero" during the Bronze Age is generally associated with changes in the traditional roles reserved for the comic book superhero. And these changes first come to fruition with the experiences Spidey encounters in ASM 121 & 122 and the appearances of the Punisher in ASM #129 and Wolverine in Hulk 181. The developement of the anti-hero within the Superhero genre arguably begins to "evolve" during the years of 1973 and 1974.

 

However, there is evidence that the Bronze Age anti-hero had already began appearing in the Western genre with the appearance of Jonah Hex in 1972.

 

Did the Western anti-hero lead to the introduction of the anti-hero in the superhero genre?

 

Did the anti-hero appear concurrently in both genres?

 

Is there a connection?

 

Is Jonah Hex the first Bronze Age anti-hero?

 

bronzejohnny

[blowout]

Conan.

[Jayman]

Conan.

 

Maybe he means original character?

[sterlingcomics]

I have no idea that Jonah was the first bronze anti-hero, but I absolutely loved the series....I have plenty of VF books from the reads and re-reads. I'm pleased that they have brought back the character in a current series.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Jonah is so inspired by Clint Eastwood's Man with no Name that it's hard for me to really think of him as truly original or groundbreaking. Much as I love him!

 

Marc

[sterlingcomics]

Jonah is so inspired by Clint Eastwood's Man with no Name that it's hard for me to really think of him as truly original or groundbreaking. Much as I love him!

 

Marc

 

True, but it is still entertaining. It's actually one of the first (and few) westerns I read as a kid

[Jayman]

Jonah is so inspired by Clint Eastwood's Man with no Name that it's hard for me to really think of him as truly original or groundbreaking. Much as I love him!

 

Marc

 

Always thought of him being inspired by the outlaw Josey Whales (sp?) but close enough!

[joe_collector]

Conan.

 

No joke, and Conan was where the "Bronze Age anti-hero" began and ended, and I think I've covered this about 2 zillion times.

 

Conan may not have been a totally original character, but the book was a hot-selling, award-winning juggernaut and tons of books were promoted as "in the tradition of Conan..." during that era. Basically, Wolverine is "Conan with claws" and the Punisher is "Conan with a gun" (What If issues have even drawn the parallels), and that comic is unquestionably what led to the wave of Marvel anti-heroes.

 

And as many others have stated, Jonah was a response to the incredibly popular Western anti-heros like many of the guys Clint portrayed. I doubt his bi-monthly guest-starring led to much of anything on the DC side during the early to mid-70's, and to say he started the "Western anti-hero wave" would be like stating that Shang Chi began the 1970's Kung Fu phase.

[joe_collector]

Always thought of him being inspired by the outlaw Josey Whales (sp?) but close enough!

 

There are a couple of Western characters Hex builds off of, but that is definitely one of them.

[bronze johnny]

Jonah Hex is an original Bronze Age Comic Book creation. Conan is not.

 

I should have made this clearer, my apologies.

 

Thanks Jayman

[joe_collector]

Jonah Hex is an original Bronze Age Comic Book creation. Conan is not.

 

That really does not matter, as Green Lantern, Green Arrow, and Batman were NOT original Bronze Age creations, and they played the pivotal role in moving DC from the SA to the BA.

 

Conan and Hex weren't even in the same area code. Conan was a hot-selling (it broke the record for achieving a monthly status), award-winning success that spawned many imitators and clones, while Jonah Hex guest-starred in a bi-monthly Western book, often ceding cover and headline story status to others like El Diablo.

 

Jonah Hex' first appearance was not even a big deal until the mid-90's and I can remember reading articles on how it was an "undiscovered gem that virtually no one remembers".

 

So as for influence on the early-BA creations, this derivative character had absolutely none, and it's just some strange form of 20-20 hindsight.

[bronze johnny]

Conan definitely initiated the Bronze Age Sword and Sorcery Genre. And yes Conan is one of the greatest comic books to ever come out of the Bronze Age. But Conan is a comic book adaptation of a character that Robert E. Howard created prior to the Bronze Age.

 

And whether Jonah Hex is a response to 60s Western films does not change the fact that he is an original comic book character.

 

And yes, Wolverine is much more than Conan with claws.

[joe_collector]

And whether Jonah Hex is a response to 60s Western films does not change the fact that he is an original comic book character.

 

Of course he is, I'm just stating that you're vastly over-rating his impact. Until the mid-90's, he was just another dead Western character from a dead genre, and without the obvious connection to Clint Eastwood, he might actually still be.

 

I often wonder what this resistance is to Conan and his obvious influence on the anti-hero movement in the Bronze Age. Is it because Conan is not an original character? Have people not read comics from 1961-69, and then seen what happened after Conan debuted? Do people not realize that Silver Age heroes DID NOT kill prior to Conan, and afterwards, it was the entire basis for popular characters like Wolverine, Punisher, Deathlok, etc.?

 

I never used to give Conan his due, but then on the advice of a few board members, I re-read many of the comics before and after Conan #1, and it was like someone at Marvel thought "hey, why not take the Conan character design, and translate him elsewhere?". It was also very blatant in some areas, and if you don't think Conan and Wolverine share common traits, then you haven't read the books.

 

It's all there if anyone wants to actually read the comics and see the progression from Silver Age boy scouts to Bronze Age anti-hero who would and did, kill. Like night and day.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Jonah is so inspired by Clint Eastwood's Man with no Name that it's hard for me to really think of him as truly original or groundbreaking. Much as I love him!

 

Marc

 

Always thought of him being inspired by the outlaw Josey Whales (sp?) but close enough!

 

Josey Wales is 1976... though that movie may have really given Fleisher a lot of inspiration for his stories that came after.

 

I totally agree that Conan does not get enough credit for a lot of things.

 

Marc

[Zonker]

Well, Jonah Hex's importance to DC shouldn't be downplayed-- along with Warlord, it was one of the very few new commerical successes at DC in the 1970s. But first anti-hero? No, not even at DC, and not even within the Western genre.

 

In the late 1960s there was Bat Lash. Bat Lash took his cue visually from the James Garner Maverick TV show, but he was much more of a rogue than Garner's lovable gambler. Bat Lash was a con man, double-crossing his friends, loving & leaving the ladies, and generally making fun of Western genre conventions (and this was prior to the Little Big Man movie). If I recall correctly, he also could be quite violent, for instance in chasing down the killers of his parents.

 

Genre characters like Conan and Hex seemed to get more slack at first than the super-heroes. The late 1973 Kaluta Shadow revival was the first I recall where the "super-hero" actually made no qualms about killing the bad guys. But that was a pulp adaptation, just like Conan. (Though I suppose they could have cleaned it up by choosing to more closely adapt the sanitized radio show rather than the original pulps).

 

Soon thereafter you have the Fleischer Spectre and Goodwin Manhunter regularly blowing away the bad guys. Punisher, Deathlok & Wolverine showed up in '74.

 

And not to take anything away from Marvel-- they did the anti-hero years earlier, first with Sub-mariner and then later giving actual villains like Dr. Doom and Morbius their own features.

[joe_collector]

I totally agree that Conan does not get enough credit for a lot of things.

 

I was thinking about this the other day, and there is another very popular Bronze Age theme, one that is also mirrored in the movies and TV of the time:

 

The heroes may beat the bad guys, but they don't always win.

 

That was real 70's vibe and was happening in everything from Chinatown to Bad News Bears, and Amazing Spider-man 121-122 to Captain America 172-175 to X-Men 95. Later on, this had an even greater impact, with X-Men 137 and Daredevil 181.

[Psiknight]

I totally agree that Conan does not get enough credit for a lot of things.

 

I was thinking about this the other day, and there is another very popular Bronze Age theme, one that is also mirrored in the movies and TV of the time:

 

The heroes may beat the bad guys, but they don't always win.

 

That was real 70's vibe and was happening in everything from Chinatown to Bad News Bears, and Amazing Spider-man 121-122 to Captain America 172-175 to X-Men 95. Later on, this had an even greater impact, with X-Men 137 and Daredevil 181.

 

This is probably my all-time favorite comic book trend. When the 70s rolled around with "anti-heroes" like Conan, Punisher, and Wolverine we saw a more "realistic" superhero. It wasn't always black/white - good/bad. The shades of grey, the good guys losing...these are the aspects of comics that I love.

 

Conan really ushered in a new era of "comicdom" and that's why I consider Conan 1 to be the first Bronze Age book.

[bigfiver69]

Jonah Hex is one of my favorite characters. True, he didn't have as much success commercially as Conan, but the WWT/JH run lasted for a very long time... one of the longest original-character BA runs.

 

I love Conan. My older brother had a full set of the magazine version, which I still read today. They were sooooo much better than the colour comic. I discovered the comic AFTER the magazine, and felt it to be a pale version.

 

I have a pretty complete set of WWT and JH, and re-reading them, the stories and art stand up (in my opinion) much better than the Conan books of the era. Just more vital and deeply felt.

 

But who was more important as an anti-hero firestarter for the bronze age? Probably Conan, though Hex was certainly an important and influential character.

 

Curious, what would a price comparison of Conan #1 and All Star Western #10 in 9.6 white look like?

 

Shep

[Psiknight]

GPA lists no AS-Western 10s in 9.6 selling but a 9.4 last sold for 862.50, versus 622.00 for the last Conan 1 9.4.

 

My guess is that the All-Star Western had a much lower print run? I'd certainly believe that more people are searching for Conan 1 than AS-Western 10.

[joe_collector]

My guess is that the All-Star Western had a much lower print run? I'd certainly believe that more people are searching for Conan 1 than AS-Western 10.

 

All-Star Western 10 was not a big key until well into the 1990's. Like I said, few cared about Hex' first appearance, or even worried about it until OS and Wizard started pumping it as "rare" circa 1994 or so.

 

It was kinda like the "last wave" of "no one gave a about these, but we'll hype them anyway" key issues like Amazing Adventures 11, Iron Man 55, the Spectre Adventures, All Star Western 10, etc. Due to attrition and decades of collector indifference, many of these are rarer that key issues from the same era.

 

Conan was a monster hit and his first appearance was a $20 book pretty early on, and it was viewed as a key issue since day one, so naturally more HG copies survived.