Pressing project results--post here

[Ze-man]

So Mark, I have to ask: what does the responses in red vs green really mean? Conflict vs agreement?

 

I simply like red, and it has fewer letters than green. Easier to type.

 

You meant, you are a lawyer, and the Devil is red, so red suits you best..right?

 

 

Ok, there I go again, making lawyer jokes. And it aint even my birthday, so I will take my smakdown.

 

Ze-

 

It was totally worth it though.

[Dad&Son-migration]

I thought this old thread deserved a bump since the ol' Manufactured Gold thread ( IMO the best thread going until derailment sealed it's fate ) !! Interesting read for many newbies that may not have seen it yet. I found it very interesting to see where many of the long time member's opinions stood. Take a look and see if you still feel the same way.

One of the more informative threads in this forum and I didn't want it to fall off the 1 year deadline.

[Red Hook]

See my sig......

[Dad&Son-migration]

See my sig......

 

man.. now I have to go turn sigs "on" ... I'll be back...

 

 

good thinking Brad!!! I bumped the other thread because it could still be posted in and maybe have some good mature and educational discussion on such a fascinating topic. The manufactured gold thread might ride off into the sunset due to it being locked so great idea to keep it alive by creating the link. That was by far my favourite thread.

 

btw.. had to turn sigs back off again... the place looks like a "xxx" site with them on.

[Red Hook]

Brad then asks whether Matt has ever pressed a book after disassembling it. Personally, I do not see how the answer could be anything but yes, since Matt offers full restoration services, which typically are finished off with a pressing. Matt responds that he doesn't want to answer without giving away any trade secrets, and asks Brad to ask the question another way. Brad asks if Matt could have removed the stress marks from the spine. Matt says maybe, but that he'd have to see the book again because he doesn't know whether or not they broke color.

 

Knowing Matt, he could have answered my question fully at that point, but he ain't on a witness stand, he isn't under oath, so he apparently is willing to let the assumptions fall where they may.

Well, I am going out on a limb and declaring that Matt does indeed take books apart and reinserts or replaces staples after pressing. Technically, I believe that CGC frowns upon this...but a rather huge side issue here, in my opinion, is that CGC is neither capable nor interested in looking for "high end" structural manipulations of the books that they look at en masse on a daily basis. It simply would be too time consuming.

 

Of course, if you were to flag a specific book, say, a Ewert suspect, and ask them to check for micro-trimming ....after careful examination they might be able to come to a conclusion. But if someone is really good at micro-trimming, or pressing with dis-assembly and/or staple re-insertion or replacement....then I frankly think the odds are that they are going to get away with it.

 

This is not meant as a condemnation of CGC.....I just think it's a statement based on the reality of the volume of books they look at, and the growing finesse of the finaglers. I happen to think that Matt is currently hacking the CGC system as well as anyone out there. And he's kinda' proud of it too. That's what keeps coming through in all his posts. The hubris.

 

So, that said....there are always going to be Matts and Jasons trying to push the envelope. Some will get caught, some won't. And then there are the dealers that have lost more than a little touch with the art and the aesthetics of the books that have become little more than profit-producing fodder to them. There are exceptions of course, but it's still all about the money.

 

At this point....all I can say is that nothing is as it seems. I really believe that CGC over-stated and continues to over-state their detection abilities. That said, the responsibility reverts once again to the consumer. And the only path at that point is to educate oneself.

 

I admire Matt's abilities. I appreciate the time he took to do the pressing of the books I sent him. But I do sense it's just a game for him at this point. He may have devised a nice cash cow methodology....but I think I'd rather hang with the guys in Comics General who are creating threads of their collections. That's why I started collecting 40 years ago.

 

Red

 

I still stand by this post.....the only thing that's changed is CGC's subsequently stating that they don't have a problem with disassembly in certain cases. I also have met Matt since and happen to think he's an okay guy. We just happen to be on opposite sides of the fence on this important issue.

 

Oh, and finally, Matt did start giving up his secrets to Kenny.

[Dad&Son-migration]

I still stand by this post.....the only thing that's changed is CGC's subsequently stating that they don't have a problem with disassembly in certain cases. I also have met Matt since and happen to think he's an okay guy. We just happen to be on opposite sides of the fence on this important issue.

 

Oh, and finally, Matt did start giving up his secrets to Kenny.

 

I hear where you're coming from Brad and I respect your opinions greatly as I find you are a guy that has always "told it like it is" and I like that... no BS'ing. Plus we've bantered a little here and there...

I've spoken briefly by email with Matt and I also like & respect him for his abilities, knowledge and I believe he is a savy entreprenuer.

I'm conflicted which way to lean because I'm an enthusiast who enjoys the hobby and loves interacting with "true collectors" but I also love the "entreprenual spirit" in any business arena even if it's reflected in what someone does in this hobby that some agree with and some don't agree with.

What you mentioned earlier in this thread a while back is that it comes down to "buyer beware" and buyer education. . I find that is the only safe guard for any collector and that's the only thing a collector can "control" in this area of the hobby.

I've let it be known that I'm publicly in favour of dry cleaning and pressing as I don't see it as restoration but I also chose to join NOD for the educational portion and to show others that this is my stance but you'll know what you get from me. ( I actually came to you and Nik for acceptance to the group )

My conflict now is I don't see NOD doing anything except send me the odd "friendly reminder" to plaster the NOD logo on anything "I" do when I sell something on eBay and my own site. I now feel I'm the one being policed as a member to the point where I feel I should put the logo on my underwear because if I sit down I might "press" something... (that's a joke )

 

So I do side with Matt as I feel he's playing within the "rules of the industry". Matt didn't make the rules, in fact no one made rules...the rules are really based on collector's opinions and education. So I'll continue to try to educate but it may or may not be as a member of NOD as I see it's really the onus of the collector whether they choose to listen and make up their own mind.

[Red Hook]

My conflict now is I don't see NOD doing anything except send me the odd "friendly reminder" to plaster the NOD logo on anything "I" do when I sell something on eBay and my own site. I now feel I'm the one being policed as a member to the point where I feel I should put the logo on my underwear because if I sit down I might "press" something... (that's a joke )

 

I do think you might be missing the point about displaying the logo. It's important. If you agree with the premise of disclosure, then adding the logo to an auction helps visibility and gets the message out.

 

And, no...I don't think I've gotten the memo about displaying it on my underwear.

 

....and sometimes things just move slowly.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Brad... that's a good point too... I enjoy our chats... " look Ma!!! no flame wars" just a mature discussion... does that go against board policy

[Mr. Zipper]

My conflict now is I don't see NOD doing anything except send me the odd "friendly reminder" to plaster the NOD logo on anything "I" do when I sell something on eBay and my own site. I now feel I'm the one being policed...

 

Hi Paul -

 

There may not be a lot of public activity at this moment, but the NOD leadership is working behind the scenes and drawing plans for the organization going forward. And, frankly, with an all-volunteer leadership who are located across several times zones, things do move slowly at times.

 

Regarding the logo, Brad is correct. At this early stage of our organization, creating awareness of us and our mission is a key goal, and one of the best ways we can do that is to encourage (or prod ) our members to display the logo prominently.

 

[Darthdiesel]

Oh...this thread I forgot if I ever posted my results in here or the "new" thread. I'll double-check and post sometime this weekend. To answer dad&son about how forumites stand on the issue today in light of the manufactured gold thread, I'm still sticking to my guns. I will refrain from getting into it with esquire

[Dad&Son-migration]

My conflict now is I don't see NOD doing anything except send me the odd "friendly reminder" to plaster the NOD logo on anything "I" do when I sell something on eBay and my own site. I now feel I'm the one being policed...

 

Hi Paul -

 

There may not be a lot of public activity at this moment, but the NOD leadership is working behind the scenes and drawing plans for the organization going forward. And, frankly, with an all-volunteer leadership who are located across several times zones, things do move slowly at times.

 

Regarding the logo, Brad is correct. At this early stage of our organization, creating awareness of us and our mission is a key goal, and one of the best ways we can do that is to encourage (or prod ) our members to display the logo prominently.

 

 

Hi Steve,

What about when we sell books in the forum?? I have no problem with the logo display ... I guess I'm not a patient person...and like, ( often expect ) instant results from anything.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Oh...this thread I forgot if I ever posted my results in here or the "new" thread. I'll double-check and post sometime this weekend. To answer dad&son about how forumites stand on the issue today in light of the manufactured gold thread, I'm still sticking to my guns. I will refrain from getting into it with esquire

 

That's cool Carl as long as no one starts dumping on each other and talks with maturity I think we all get further and learn more.!!!

[Mr. Zipper]

What about when we sell books in the forum?? I have no problem with the logo display

 

According to the letter of the NOD Guidelines, members are not be required to use a NOD logo in forum sales. However, I'd strongly encourage it.

 

... I guess I'm not a patient person...and like, ( often expect ) instant results from anything.

 

When you mention "results" I'm not really sure what you mean. The committee is always open to ideas. Tell us what you want to see from the organization. We aim to please.

[Dad&Son-migration]

When you mention "results" I'm not really sure what you mean. The committee is always open to ideas. Tell us what you want to see from the organization. We aim to please.

 

I guess what I would like to see is the exposure factor. It's not really ever discussed on these boards where there are many prominent collectors and dealers. I would love a mature format where people would discuss and ask questions to NOD without flame wars incurring. ( Almost impossible these days )

I haven't seen the benefits of membership yet... but I get the impression that the organization is receiving a "thanks but no thanks" attitude at this stage and not sure if it's because we haven't made it an approachable entity.

[Mr. Zipper]

I haven't seen the benefits of membership yet... but I get the impression that the organization is receiving a "thanks but no thanks" attitude at this stage and not sure if it's because we haven't made it an approachable entity.

 

It's early in the game and membership is growing. Right now, NOD membership means supporting a set of ideas regarding disclosure, transparency, education and preservation of the history of the hobby. We aren't at the point yet where we can send out snazzy NOD membership kits.

 

We are making progress and getting the word out as demonstrated by our ad in the new OSPG.

 

I don't know why anyone would think we weren't an approachable entity. The Committee members are me, Brent (QualityComix) and Mark (Esquire Comics). I think we are all pretty nice guys.

 

We are always open to hearing member suggestions and feedback.