Pressing experiment #50020021
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Well I am tired of secrets, tired on not knowing so I am taking it upon myself to figure out exactly what pressing is. I will be contacting everyone I can find who knows paper, restoration, and pressing to find out for myself what the f is actually involved.

 

This is my first step towards that goal.

 

To my credit I am what is considered a master craftsman so to speak. I am quite good at cutting glass and making leaded windows.

 

Pressing paper ephemera should be a breeze.

 

This will be an ongoing experiment. I promise to divulge everything I learn along the way. The sole purpose of which is self education, and anyone else who cares to join in... I welcome all and any feedback.

 

Instead of person_without_enough_empathying about pressing(which I have done in spades) I want to figure it out for myself. It aint rocket science folks, just alot of trial and error. It involves paper, and various methods of manipulation.

 

All due respect Matt, you are a very skilled at what you do. I will never be you. I realize you are not to be held responsible for all things evil about pressing.You just happen to be here, and showed your face,it is easy to single you out. I do not for a second take that lightly.

I really dont have the time, nor the resources to devote what is needed to dedicate myself to such a task, but what I do have is desire. A desire to understand what up to now has been a trade secret.

 

For todays consideration I took a comic, bent a corner and pressed it out in a matter of minutes. I took household tools and spent only a few minutes.. but what I did worked.

 

It involved heat.

 

So I guess we call this HEAT experiment #1

 

I took a comic, bent a corner. Took my iron, turned it on, then off. Placed some paper on either side of the cover...pressed the iron down as hard as I could, moved it around, pressed some more, then placed a heavy book on top for 1 minute. Thats it.

This was meant to be very simplistic, and it was. Any dealer can do this. Its scary.

 

imageanotherb4corver.jpg

imagebadcornerb4.jpg

 

inagegreatinside.jpgexperiment1023.jpg

experiment1024.jpg

 

Here is the book after 2 minutes.

 

imageaftercoverhandhld.jpg

 

imagecoverhandheldinsideafter.jpg

 

 

 

End result, the crease was still there, barely. And the paper was only mildly warped from the heat.

 

I did this in about 5 minutes. On a whim. This is of great interest to me,I have no idea if I am alone in thinking this way.

 

More to come

 

Ze-

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Questions; Looks like you bent the whole book, not just the covers, correct?

What heat setting did you use? I see a water chamber in your iron for pressing. Did you do this dry or with steam?

Edited by CatskillMike

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That bend looks a little stronger than most non-color breaking creases I see on my books. Did you try your technique on a lighter crease?

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Well I am tired of secrets, tired on not knowing so I am taking it upon myself to figure out exactly what pressing is. I will be contacting everyone I can find who knows paper, restoration, and pressing to find out for myself what the f is actually involved.

 

This is my first step towards that goal.

 

To my credit I am what is considered a master craftsman so to speak. I am quite good at cutting glass and making leaded windows.

 

Pressing paper ephemera should be a breeze.

Excellent thread thumbsup2.gif (though I have to admit I cringed a little when I read "took my Iron"). 893whatthe.gif But your quicky experiment and pictures are interesting.

 

Your frustration comes through loud and clear. And it's weird that outside of comicbookland paper flattening techniques aren't "secret" at all. There's a ton of information on the web from professional paper conservationist.

 

Here's one that decribes the process, including relaxing the paper before you, uh, get "the Iron". blush.gifgrin.gif

How To Flatten Folded Or Rolled Paper Documents by the National Park Service, Conserve O Gram 13/4

 

Good luck, looking forward to more. Bring it. popcorn.gif

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I admire your attitude. I hope you(we) learn some things from this experiment.

 

I have a sneaky suspiscion that part of the reason for the secrecy is that some (not all) of the techniques used are so simple they are achievable by nearly anyone. This would, of course, have a detrimnental effect on a presser's business.

 

Regarding your specific first experiment, it will be interesting to see how the affected book reacts over time - one month, one year, etc. Perhaps you can keep us updated.

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If books are so easily and casually "pressed" and "restored" I can't help but wonder if it's such a big deal after all. If it became an accepted practice, with the stigma of restoration removed - and provided it doesn't actually harm books in the long run - then i could see the possibility of its use actually decreasing since it would no longer be such a "big deal." I mean, if we agree that greed (or at least a desire to drive up selling prices) is a prime motivation behind the current pressing practice, maybe buyers would think less of paying multiples of guide for a "flat" book if they simply assumed that slightly "lesser" books could be pressed flat instead. In other words, if easily pressable flaws had less of an impact on grade/price, then fewer dealers might even take the time/money to engage in it.

 

Either way, it doesn't affect me much. I'll take my horns off now...

 

poke2.gif

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I thought every comic was sacred,in whatever shape it was in. You people condone someome who at best would be called a rank beginner mutilating comics just for the thrill of it?

Maybe next,Kenny can write and draw an issue of Miracle Man. How hard can that be. After all,he knows how to cut stainglass.

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I thought every comic was sacred,in whatever shape it was in. You people condone someome who at best would be called a rank beginner mutilating comics just for the thrill of it?

Maybe next,Kenny can write and draw an issue of Miracle Man. How hard can that be. After all,he knows how to cut stainglass.

Answer: YES. 893whatthe.gif

 

With more pictures, please. thumbsup2.gif

 

No offense, but I'm surprised it took so long for this argument to show up...that if "secret knowledge" gets out it will only lead to amateurs butchering sacred comics...any experimenting on sacred comics is blasphemy.

 

I bet the old saying "you may have to break a few eggs to make an omelet" applies to how today's zipped-lipped Professionals learned. Especially when they first began. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

And if they would step up, maybe fewer comics would get "mutilated" just to understand what the hell is going on. Ze could put away his Iron.

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Questions; Looks like you bent the whole book, not just the covers, correct?

What heat setting did you use? I see a water chamber in your iron for pressing. Did you do this dry or with steam?

 

You asked the first question, so I will answer you first.

 

I only bent the lower right corner of the cover. The rest of the book was untouched.

Here is another photo.

imagegoodb4example.jpg

 

I used no heat setting, I turned the iron on,let it heat up slightly then turned it off to the point is was barely hot.

 

No water, no steam, as I said the iiron was completely off.

 

 

Ze-

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That bend looks a little stronger than most non-color breaking creases I see on my books. Did you try your technique on a lighter crease?

 

I have before, and yes I made it large so it was easy to see, large or small they would behave the same if bent the same way.

 

Ze-

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Regarding your specific first experiment, it will be interesting to see how the affected book reacts over time - one month, one year, etc. Perhaps you can keep us updated.

 

I conducted similar experiments over a year ago, the books are the same now as the day I pressed out the flaws. No change. From what I can tell once paper is coerced into its new position either through heat or moisture it stays that way. Spine roll might be a different story since it involves more then 1 sheet of paper.

 

Ze-

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I thought every comic was sacred,in whatever shape it was in. You people condone someome who at best would be called a rank beginner mutilating comics just for the thrill of it?

Maybe next,Kenny can write and draw an issue of Miracle Man. How hard can that be. After all,he knows how to cut stainglass.

 

Shad, you crack me up. How do you think people in the restoration business got to the point where they are called professional? They spent alot of time, and ruined alot of books, that's how. Those who get better at it are the ones who learn from their mistakes. We are all guilty of being ignorant of diffrerent things until we spend the proper steps required to be considered otherwise.

 

Mutilating comics?... rank beginner? The Thrill of it?.. 27_laughing.gif...you crack me up! Shad, I was once rank I suppose...but I have around 30 hours of actuall on hand pressing experience under my belt already.I have made paper from scratch during my art school days, I have read as much as possible about this topic. I am only doing this with the sole purpose of learning more about it through different types of pressing excersises, there is no thrill involved. I am taking it to the next logical step...when do I qualify to become a full jedi?..let me know your criteria, ok?

 

Your analogy comparing pressing books and drawing comics is laughable at best. Drawing takes skill, even other forms of real restoration takes a degree of artistic skill. Sure you can get better at both with practice, but I know for a fact I could spend 5 hours a day drawing and never draw anything of worth...On the other hand pressing comics is more about tools, and the knowledge of how to best utilize those tools...oh.. and practice, practice, practice.

 

I work with my hands, I have a way with tools. Pressing involves tools and materials I am familiar with.. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I know my limitations, this is not one of them.

 

You should know yours too and stay out of my threads unless you actually have something worthwhile to contribute.

 

 

And thnx for my 1 star rating!!

 

acclaim.gif

 

Ze-

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Now, onward.

 

To be clear. While the Heat experiment I did last night was done on a whim, it was not done haphazardly. I have done similar pressings many many times before. I knew how it would behave, and used the same method I came up with to best achieve the results with those crude tools. I did this first because it is obviously the easiest and most readily available form of pressing out there. Anyone can do it, not well perhaps.. but everyone could at least try to do it. I plan to also show examples of what happens if you use too much heat, and or moisture the wrong way. So everyone (including myself) can see what bad press jobs look like and avoid possibly buying books that share similar traits.

 

That's what this is all about. Not showing everyone how to press books. But rather to see the results of different types of pressing. This will obviously take ALOT of time, and effort. But it interests me. Even if all of this is only self serving, if others want to read about it, here it is. If not.. skip to the next thread. I understand.

 

I also plan to see what possible methods can be used see what exactly is being done to the paper fibers once pressed. Who knows, maybe an electron microscope will show the papers fibers are damaged on a level that we cannot see. That is what interests me. Finding out more,and the only way to start ..is to take the first step. Should be fun if nothing else. I have meetings planned with various experts to see if their chosen proffessions skillset can be useful. Probably will not pan out to be much of anything, but everytime I speak with someone asking them if they would be interested they jump in with both feet. Or they recommend me to someone they know who might be of help.

 

Ze-

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I think this is a terrific idea and I applaud someone for taking the time and effort to examine the various ways to go about pressing comics.

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893scratchchin-thumb.gifpopcorn.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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I'm sending all of my books to ZeMan for pressing. He fully discloses everything and is not afraid to try new approaches. thumbsup2.gif

 

To use spiffy codewords I believe Kenny's service will help "level the playing field" for the little guy. yay.gif

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Great idea Kenny. Keep it going. thumbsup2.gif

 

Interestingly enough, a fellow collector/dealer told me today that he had one of the major restoration experts (and I will not identify the person) press a book a few years ago. Recently the individual noticed the creases had returned. Apparently the expert admitted that could happen. Of course, this is just anecdotal and not sufficient evidence of anything but begging further questions for experimentation.

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I have a sneaky suspicion that part of the reason for the secrecy is that some (not all) of the techniques used are so simple they are achievable by nearly anyone. This would, of course, have a detrimnental effect on a presser's business.

 

This makes more sense than the "trade secrets" argument... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Jim

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I have a sneaky suspicion that part of the reason for the secrecy is that some (not all) of the techniques used are so simple they are achievable by nearly anyone. This would, of course, have a detrimnental effect on a presser's business.

 

This makes more sense than the "trade secrets" argument... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Jim

I don't know why everyone's making a big deal out of Matt not disclosing his techniques. If he views them as secret, then he views them as secret. That is his privilege and he's entitled to it. He's been quite polite in saying no to persistent requests, more polite than I would've been.

 

For anyone who seems to think they have a right to know the techniques, then on your list of things to do please add goomg down to Coca Cola's HQ and asking them for the secret formula. They will politely decline. You can tell them that you can figure it out from a chemical analysis so they might as well tell you. You can tell them that Pepsi and RC must have pretty much figured it out, since their products taste kind of like Coke. Guess what: they still won't tell you! Would anyone dispute that's their right? So what's the difference here?

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