USAGE GUIDELINES - comment thread 3 3

[joe_collector]

They can just do it in the other marketplace right?

 

Exactly, and if these dealers *truly* wanted to be part of this community, there is absolutely no issue with them offering a forum-only sale of "new releases" before they actually hit the website.

 

Not what you-know-who did (which was dealer spam) but a true forum-only deal, like if the Blazing One got in a new collection and gave us first dibs for a few days, then loaded the remainder of the books on his website after.

 

There is nothing in the regulations that forbides that, but again, the dealers must *want* to be part of our CGC forum community, rather than just using it as an easy repository for their spam.

[drbanner]

I obviously disagree, and don't believe dropping rule #3 completely out of the rules list would result in much of a change at all, other than allowing the almost-dealers (like BlazingBob) to post their great books here for sale.

 

The way dealers like Mile High, Comiclink, and Metropolis run their business would not be conducive to them posting "their online stock for sale here" given rules #4 and #9. These guys have major websites with integrated ordering, bid/offer, and credit card acceptance capabilities. The last thing they would want to do is change that business model to sell books here under the remaining guidelines, which for them would be a relatively labor-intensive endeavour compared to handling everything through their websites.

 

I would think that the majority of posters would like to see more books offered here, rather than less...

[joe_collector]

Remember, it's not just dealers, but collectors/mini-dealers with their own books listed on dealer sites, consignment areas like CL, private sites, or other online venues. No online ordering needed, as the owner can sell private, but there would be tons of useless advertising portrayed as forum sales.

 

That rules keeps a lot of SPAM out of the forum.

[esquirecomics]

I agree with Dr. Banner. The collector vs. dealer (whether full-time or part-time) mentality that some board members have is neither productive nor inclusive. Dealers should want to be part of "the CGC Community"? As if this is some special community that requires membership or special handshakes? All that does is create a wedge or foster a bad taste and forumites lose out. I, for one, am not particularly eager to have to deal with the boards in the near future as a result of the over the top attacks I encountered based on perceived or real violations of guidelines or rules, whatever they might have been.

 

If there is to be a distinction in the threads, one should be for anyone (whether dealer or collector or some combination of the two) to offer books strictly in advance to forumites for whatever time period is set by that individual (i.e., these following books are available for 72 hours and then will be posted elsewhere). If that entails listing 500 books, so be it as long as they are only being offered only to those in the forum. I have no problems with the posts having no outside links. The other thread would be for everything else (e-bay, websites, etc).

[drbanner]

Remember, it's not just dealers, but collectors/mini-dealers with their own books listed on dealer sites, consignment areas like CL, private sites, or other online venues. No online ordering needed, as the owner can sell private, but there would be tons of useless advertising portrayed as forum sales.

 

What's wrong with that? They have books listed elsewhere, they try to sell them here...and probably for less since they will be selling them themselves and paying no comission. I don't believe they should just be allowed to come here and say "Hey, here's a link to my Hulk #1 on Clink, check it out!", but rather, should be allowed to say "Hey, here's a Hulk #1 for sale for $(10% less than listed on Clink), please PM me if you're interested".

[joe_collector]

I agree with Dr. Banner. The collector vs. dealer (whether full-time or part-time) mentality that some board members have is neither productive nor inclusive.

 

I think you should reread what banner wrote, as that's NOT what he's saying.

 

There is only one person who is totally against dealer involvement (Divad) while the rest of us are more worried about rule-breaking Dealer Spam. If dealers adhere to the posted Guidelines, I have absolutely no problem at all.

[esquirecomics]

I agree with Dr. Banner. The collector vs. dealer (whether full-time or part-time) mentality that some board members have is neither productive nor inclusive.

 

I think you should reread what banner wrote, as that's NOT what he's saying.

 

There is only one person who is totally against dealer involvement (Divad) while the rest of us are more worried about rule-breaking Dealer Spam. If dealers adhere to the posted Guidelines, I have absolutely no problem at all.

 

I just saw what he posted above your post and thats what I am talking about as well.

 

I do not favor dealer spam either. And I am more than willing to follow established rules and policies. We are discussing what those rules and policies should be.

[joe_collector]

And I am more than willing to follow established rules and policies. We are discussing what those rules and policies should be.

 

I just don't see the advantage to these "books can be listed for sale anywhere" offers being posted in Forum-Only Selling, as along with the inherent spam and other stupidity, CGC would need to change the title of the forum.

 

And the Forum-Only part is the base reason why it was split, so after the dealer stock lists and ComicLink sales posts appear, we'd all be petitioning Arch to split it yet again, thus defeating the entire purpose of the split in the first place.

[esquirecomics]

For whatever reason the forum only thread appears to get more traffic than the other thread. I don't follow your objection so long as the books are only being offered to forumites.

 

If the objection is that if someone says the books are available for only 3 days yet the thread stays up for 12 it distorts the offer, that I understand. Then perhaps the length of time that a thread exists with no posts should be shortened, or options could be created (if not too difficult) that enables deletion by the creator or the ability to decide on the time the thread exists or perhaps simply have a locked thread from the beginning and only encourage PMs for purchases or questions.

[joe_collector]

For whatever reason the forum only thread appears to get more traffic than the other thread. I don't follow your objection so long as the books are only being offered to forumites.

 

Just so we're clear, here's the rule Banner is trying to revoke, and a change that you're agreeing with:

 

3. It must be an exclusive board-only offer. If the book is offered for sale through another venue (ebay, dealer site, personal web site, etc.) then it should NOT be offered here. It should be offered in the Sales Advertising board.

[drbanner]

For whatever reason the forum only thread appears to get more traffic than the other thread. I don't follow your objection so long as the books are only being offered to forumites.

 

Just so we're clear, here's the rule Banner is trying to revoke, and a change that you're agreeing with:

 

3. It must be an exclusive board-only offer. If the book is offered for sale through another venue (ebay, dealer site, personal web site, etc.) then it should NOT be offered here. It should be offered in the Sales Advertising board.

 

JC's right...you guys are arguing in circles. I do not believe that the limitation that books should not be offered anywhere else should be retained...and furthermore, I do not believe that eliminating the requirement will really make that big a difference in what gets posted for sale here, other than giving forumites access to more/better books than is offered here now.

[esquirecomics]

For whatever reason the forum only thread appears to get more traffic than the other thread. I don't follow your objection so long as the books are only being offered to forumites.

 

Just so we're clear, here's the rule Banner is trying to revoke, and a change that you're agreeing with:

 

3. It must be an exclusive board-only offer. If the book is offered for sale through another venue (ebay, dealer site, personal web site, etc.) then it should NOT be offered here. It should be offered in the Sales Advertising board.

 

I appreciate the clarification. You are correct, I do not agree with that specific revision (however I would have no objection if the offer to the forum only was for a lower price than pubicly available but the book is promoted elsewhere). I was commenting on or agreeing with his supporting statements rather than that specific revision. I agree (or I should more appropriately say I have no objection) to having a distinction between a thread providing exclusive board-only offers and one that is everything else.

 

What I am trying to isolate is the ability of someone to set a specific time period so that the thread in the forum only section meets the rules initially but then goes defunct and the person has to create a new listing in the "other" thread.

[Dick Pontoon]

I obviously disagree, and don't believe dropping rule #3 completely out of the rules list would result in much of a change at all, other than allowing the almost-dealers (like BlazingBob) to post their great books here for sale.

 

Ummm, no disrespect here to either drbanner (who I've happilly done business with) or blazingbob (who I haven't yet, but I respect), but can you explain how Bob is an "almost-dealer"? With his Overstreet ads, website, presence at the big shows and posting in the dealer forum, how does he qualify as an "almost-dealer"? Who's the next almost-dealer? Superword? Metropolis? Chuck???

[drbanner]

I obviously disagree, and don't believe dropping rule #3 completely out of the rules list would result in much of a change at all, other than allowing the almost-dealers (like BlazingBob) to post their great books here for sale.

 

Ummm, no disrespect here to either drbanner (who I've happilly done business with) or blazingbob (who I haven't yet, but I respect), but can you explain how Bob is an "almost-dealer"? With his Overstreet ads, website, presence at the big shows and posting in the dealer forum, how does he qualify as an "almost-dealer"? Who's the next almost-dealer? Superword? Metropolis? Chuck???

 

Bob has a regular, full-time job that doesn't involve comic books...but sure, he's dealer. My point above is that his setup is small enough that he could handle selling books on the forum "manually" and would probably be inclined to post his books here, as opposed to some of the major dealers who probably wouldn't even bother trying, given rules #4 and #9 (which I think are fine). I'm pretty frickin' liberal!!

[joe_collector]

And I say that if a dealer wants to sell in the Forum Only area, then there should be the requirement of selling the books exclusively to CGC forum members, before they are listed on EBay or a dealer/consignment site.

 

I don't see the big deal and I fail to understand banner's "oh, we're missing out on tons of prime books". Send dealers a want list like everyone else!!

 

If I want to sell here, I wouldn't just list books I have on EBay or on consignment, and I don't think anyone else should either. Allowing it would also lead to abuse, guaranteed.

[drbanner]

Allowing it would also lead to abuse, guaranteed.

 

I don't think so. If those postings were successful, that means a lot of forum members happily added books to their collection (which is what happened with Brent's listings) and if not, those posts will fall off the front page due to disinterest. Natural selection would take care of the riff-raff. Anyhow, there's only one way to find out, so I suggest we give it a try for a few months and see what happens!

 

As it is, nothing has really changed around here since the new guidelines were posted...

[divad]

How has this been working? Ok?

 

It's been working OK, mostly because the rule that a book cannot be advertised elsewhere precludes true "dealers" (Blazingbob, Metro, Superworld, etc.,.) from posting their new arrivals lists here, which is a shame for those of us wishing to build our collections with truly scarce, hard to find items that are typically only offered by these types of sellers.

 

Other than that, it's the same old same old that it's always been, with the exception that quasi-dealers like flyingdonut and qualitycomix can now post here like they always have, but without someone crying to you about it.

 

Also, I'm glad to see people using the "guidelines" as just that, and not "hard and fast rules". If they truly were "hard and fast rules", I don't believe a single post that has been made since the guidelines were posted would have been in compliance with all 11 of them.

 

Finally, I continue to strongly believe that rule #3 should be dropped, and I also strongly believe that doing so will not change the nature of the board, given the other rules, most notably #'s 4 and 9. However, if we're lucky it might result in an increase in the number of quality books being offered for sale here. I guess the "dealers" could use the "Sales Advertising" board, but posts there pretty much get buried by ebay Spam, which is probably why more people voted in the marketplace realignment poll to separate "Direct Sales", "Indirect Sales", and "WTB" as suggested by Chromium, than for any other option.

 

Dr. B - you amaze me.

 

This is the first time you have even acknowledged that there is an existing place for direct sales by dealers. You speak of lost opportunities - every single member dealer can post direct sales to forum members, not one of them is prevented from doing so. Your "lost in spam" thought is ridiculous, there are very few spam posts on the other thread. If the dealers wanted to make such a popular offering they are free to do so, over there. As to you being liberal? What a laugh riot that is.

 

I for one, tire of your ongoing restatements inaccurately summarizing the conclusions of these board members.

 

[divad]

How has this been working? Ok?

 

Activity has been low here. It hasn' been tested yet. But I can see a meltdown on the horizon . . .

[joe_collector]

As it is, nothing has really changed around here since the new guidelines were posted...

 

You're joking right?

 

Seriously, you haven't noticed that the more "anti-dealer spam" advocates (like myself) have virtually gone silent due to the revised rules?

 

You know why? Arch has cleared up the dealer spam by clearly outlining the guidelines and threatening strikes to those who choose to ignore them.

[drbanner]

No, I'm not joking. There was hardly any "dealer spam" on the Forum Only board to begin with, and the very little that there was is now considered A-OK under the revised guidelines, which is why the "anti-dealer spam" advocates (yourself and Divad) have gone virtually silent. Despite what some may have feared would happen when "dealers" were allowed to post, none really have. For example, I just checked the first two pages of posts, and don't see a single post that would not have been allowed previously.