Arrival dates on Pep 22, Pep 23, and Jackpot 4 confirm my thoughts all along...
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103 posts in this topic

Been meaning to chime in ... Nice work on getting things corrected with CGC and Overstreet on the 23. Might just send mine in for a slab now!

 

I must say I'm excited for next month's auction to begin. Can't wait to have some current metrics for what a universal and a restored Pep 22 go for (in their respective conditions), Pep 23 as well. They haven't been as prevalent on the auction block as Archie 1's as of late, and it'll be good to cut through all the speculation and see where the market sets the price.

:popcorn:

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Been meaning to chime in ... Nice work on getting things corrected with CGC and Overstreet on the 23. Might just send mine in for a slab now!

 

I must say I'm excited for next month's auction to begin. Can't wait to have some current metrics for what a universal and a restored Pep 22 go for (in their respective conditions), Pep 23 as well. They haven't been as prevalent on the auction block as Archie 1's as of late, and it'll be good to cut through all the speculation and see where the market sets the price.

:popcorn:

 

Since the Pep 22 is my former copy, I know it will sell for many times what I got, just so the universe can laugh at me for selling too soon.

 

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I don't know if it will be in the 2014 guide or 2015. From the sound of it, it might be the 2014. We'll see soon enough.

 

I'm definitely getting my label updated as the current label is an eyesore in my opinion. I don't care about the 100 bucks it'll cost to ship it back and forth. I think it's cool that it will be the 1st copy officially recognized as the 2nd appearance at auction.

 

You should see if CGC would add that in the notes: First copy of Pep 23 to be officially recognized as 2nd appearance of Archie.

 

I held off selling a 23 recently because I felt it has been kept below its real value. Aside from being the 2nd appearance it is the FIRST appearance of the gang as teenagers. If they had all stayed prepubescent in the "Andy Hardy" style of 22, there is no way the Archie series would be the juggernaut it became.

 

A guy at SDCC whose name I failed to catch put it well. He said if there is room for multiple keys in the evolution of Sgt. Rock, then there is room for keys in the development of Archie. And a major shift like the one from 22 to 23 might qualify for similar consideration.

 

 

Edited by bluechip
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You should've sold me that pep 22, then you would've never had to see it sell again. :cool:

 

I do think that key issues with first appearances aside from just Archie are fairly well documented. Pep #22, Pep #26, Wilbur #5, Archie's Pals and Gals #23, Madhouse #22, and so on ... as are covers like Pep #36, Jackpot #4, and stories like the first love triangle, etc. Is there room for more, of course. I think you should float the idea of recognizing the first appearance of the whole gang. MagicM's got the procedure down by now! We should also try to figure out which issue contains the first appearance of Jughead with a burger and Reggie getting his kicked by Moose. As for whether all of these firsts are priced as they should be, these days it's such a moving target, who knows.

 

 

Edited by GoldenPRGuy
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Been meaning to chime in ... Nice work on getting things corrected with CGC and Overstreet on the 23. Might just send mine in for a slab now!

 

I must say I'm excited for next month's auction to begin. Can't wait to have some current metrics for what a universal and a restored Pep 22 go for (in their respective conditions), Pep 23 as well. They haven't been as prevalent on the auction block as Archie 1's as of late, and it'll be good to cut through all the speculation and see where the market sets the price.

:popcorn:

 

Thanks! I'm definitely excited as well! A lot has happened since the last copy sold 2 years ago. Afterlife with Archie in 2013 has been huge and to top it off, they just killed Archie, kind of a big deal. Probably the two biggest things to happen to Archie comics in decades. The OSPG just gave Pep 22 the biggest percentage increase for a Golden Age title this year despite 0 copies being sold (as far as I'm aware, got anything on that G.A.tor?). 25% on the high end and 40% on lower grades. Granted the guide is largely irrelevant in terms of actual market value, as I would hope since I expect the book to go for way above guide, but it's been receiving these increases for 6 years straight and shows no sign of slowing. It's now above More Fun 52 on the OSPG "tier list" and I'll bet dollars to donuts it goes above Flash Comics 1 next year, maybe even above Detective 31. IMO it's only behind Action 1, Tec 27 and maybe Marvel 1. If in 10 years it's still as rare as it is now in relation to the other titles, then I think it's easily #3 or #4.

 

It will certainly be an interesting auction none the less. Hopefully Pep 23 gets the respect it deserves finally. Archie 2 and Jackpot 4 have been getting insane prices for even very low grades, and they aren't nearly as hard to come by at auction or as significant imho, especially Archie 2. J4 with the first minor cover appearance is sweet, but having the first teenage issue to me is far more significant, I feel it could even serve as an alternate 1st appearance for those who can't quite afford a Pep 22, kinda like when a superhero appears for the 1st time "in costume".

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Well dude, I hope it all goes your way. You've put the time in and certainly have the energy. Plus it will finally put an end to the long debates we all had over its value when you put in on eBay for 200k with a BIN and MO. Good luck!

 

:wishluck:

 

Thanks. To clarify though, it was an OBO listing, not a BIN. I never expected anyone to pay 200k, that was just to put it at the top of search results and draw attention to my store, which has been doing extremely well btw. Now it's gonna be all up to buyer demand :)

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On 8/1/2014 at 4:30 AM, GoldenPRGuy said:

I do think that key issues with first appearances aside from just Archie are fairly well documented. Pep #22, Pep #26, Wilbur #5, Archie's Pals and Gals #23, Madhouse #22, and so on ... as are covers like Pep #36, Jackpot #4, and stories like the first love triangle, etc. Is there room for more, of course. I think you should float the idea of recognizing the first appearance of the whole gang.

Top-Notch 22,  earliest appearance of Archie (albeit in an ad)?

Edited by sacentaur
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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2007 at 3:48 PM, Shield said:

 

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Now, will Overstreet please stop saying that Jackpot 4 was the same month as Pep 22? Will people please STOP saying that Jackpot 4 is the 2nd appearance of Archie? Because it's tied for 3rd place with Pep 24.

Jackpot 4 is the 1st app I new it :jokealert:

Edited by woowoo
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So can anybody speak as to the actual rarity of the early Archies? Specifically Pep #23-26. I'm pretty sure they're all listed as Gerber 5. I have a really hard time believing 200-1000 copies of each of these exist, and that's without taking into consideration that the Gerber Scale is typically significantly under the actual amount. I generally double the Gerber scale, so 400-2000 copies each? Doesn't smell right IMO based on census data and common sense in what I've seen through many years of collecting. I suppose it's possible that there are that many holdovers in private collections, but if this were Vegas I'd strongly bet the other way.

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On 7/31/2014 at 6:58 PM, bluechip said:

I held off selling a 23 recently because I felt it has been kept below its real value. Aside from being the 2nd appearance it is the FIRST appearance of the gang as teenagers. If they had all stayed prepubescent in the "Andy Hardy" style of 22, there is no way the Archie series would be the juggernaut it became.

This actually leads me to think of something that I never thought of before. 

If both Pep 22 and Jackpot 4 are stories involving the prepubescent Archie characters, then this would lead me to think that Jackpot 4 must actually be the 2nd conceived Archie story in the timeline since Pep 23 changes the tone of the story line completely to teenage characters.  hm

So, although Jackpot 4 is not the 2nd Archie story to hit the newsstand, it is probably the 2nd conceived Archie story.  Similar to how Adventure 40 is now no longer seen as the first published Sandman story, but still seen as the first conceived Sandman story in the DC timeline.  (shrug)

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10 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

This actually leads me to think of something that I never thought of before. 

If both Pep 22 and Jackpot 4 are stories involving the prepubescent Archie characters, then this would lead me to think that Jackpot 4 must actually be the 2nd conceived Archie story in the timeline since Pep 23 changes the tone of the story line completely to teenage characters.  hm

So, although Jackpot 4 is not the 2nd Archie story to hit the newsstand, it is probably the 2nd conceived Archie story.  Similar to how Adventure 40 is now no longer seen as the first published Sandman story, but still seen as the first conceived Sandman story in the DC timeline.  (shrug)

(thumbsu

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On 6/19/2014 at 6:12 AM, MagicMasonry-migration said:

My books will be in the August event auction at Comicconnect. It's a fairly Archie-centric auction with my Peps, a full run of Archie's, another Pep 22(8.0 EP resto), Archie 1 (7.0 MP resto), Archie 1 NG, and a bunch of other early Peps and Archie's.

 

I'll resubmit my 23 as soon as I get official word from CGC. Hopefully sometime soon, not sure what more needs to be determined.

Too lazy to check in my CC emails right now. 

Does anybody have any idea how MMM did with his Archie listings since it seems he hasn't posted on these boards in almost 2 years now?   Just wondering if all of his hard work on detailing the Archie timeline worked to his advantage in the end.  hm  :devil:

Edited by lou_fine
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36 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

This actually leads me to think of something that I never thought of before. 

If both Pep 22 and Jackpot 4 are stories involving the prepubescent Archie characters, then this would lead me to think that Jackpot 4 must actually be the 2nd conceived Archie story in the timeline since Pep 23 changes the tone of the story line completely to teenage characters.  hm

So, although Jackpot 4 is not the 2nd Archie story to hit the newsstand, it is probably the 2nd conceived Archie story.  Similar to how Adventure 40 is now no longer seen as the first published Sandman story, but still seen as the first conceived Sandman story in the DC timeline.  (shrug)

Only Pep 22 has the prepubescent characters.   They are teens in Pep 23 and Jackpot 4

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23 minutes ago, bluechip said:
1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

This actually leads me to think of something that I never thought of before. 

If both Pep 22 and Jackpot 4 are stories involving the prepubescent Archie characters, then this would lead me to think that Jackpot 4 must actually be the 2nd conceived Archie story in the timeline since Pep 23 changes the tone of the story line completely to teenage characters.  hm

So, although Jackpot 4 is not the 2nd Archie story to hit the newsstand, it is probably the 2nd conceived Archie story.  Similar to how Adventure 40 is now no longer seen as the first published Sandman story, but still seen as the first conceived Sandman story in the DC timeline.  (shrug)

Only Pep 22 has the prepubescent characters.   They are teens in Pep 23 and Jackpot 4

Definitely me bad then for not doing the research here.  doh!  :boo:

Did try to Google up the Jackpot 4 story before I did this post, but my computer search skills leaves a lot to be desired.  Wish I could afford a copy of these books to allow me to readily determine these details.  :frown:

Thanks again for clearing up my mistake so promptly.  (thumbsu

Edited by lou_fine
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44 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Too lazy to check in the HA archives right now. 

Does anybody have any idea how MMM did with his Archie listings since it seems he hasn't posted on these boards in almost 2 years now?   Just wondering if all of his hard work on detailing the Archie timeline worked to his advantage in the end.  hm  :devil:

Not real well if I recall. Not that he'd admit it. Pretty sure it was an eBay sale... and as we all know their archives are ?.

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7 minutes ago, GoldenPRGuy said:
53 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Too lazy to check in the HA archives my CC emails right now. 

Does anybody have any idea how MMM did with his Archie listings since it seems he hasn't posted on these boards in almost 2 years now?   Just wondering if all of his hard work on detailing the Archie timeline worked to his advantage in the end.  hm  :devil:

Not real well if I recall. Not that he'd admit it. Pretty sure it was an eBay sale... and as we all know their archives are ?.

Note that I corrected where the auctions took place.  :gossip:

I initially mistakenly thought they were done in Heritage, but it sounds as though they took place on CC, as per MMM's initial post. 

Edited by lou_fine
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42 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Definitely me bad then for not doing the research here.  doh!  :boo:

Did try to Google up the Jackpot 4 story before I did this post, but my computer search skills leaves a lot to be desired.  Wish I could afford a copy of these books to allow me to readily determine these details.  :frown:

Thanks again for clearing up my mistake so promptly.  (thumbsu

Dark Horse has a great Archie Archives series, so you can read them for next to nothing :)

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