Silver Age Hierarchy Poll - Positions 28, 29, 30, 31

[Flash105]

Marvel did not have the golden age history that DC had and bascially threw it out the door. DC on the other hand had this rich history and while needing the silver age change to pull new audience wanted to keep the old.

 

There is a Marvel bias in this thread but hey I'm used to it.

[mysterio]

There is a Marvel bias in this thread but hey I'm used to it.

 

Sure there is (and I'm a Marvel guy myself) but there is bias inherent in the process anytime you try to determine anything by a poll. This is a popularity contest that will unfortunately probably not have anything to do with significance the poll was set up to measure. It is great fun, and I'm enjoying the thread, but anytime you see people voting for AF #15 or Flash #123 to be in the bottom 4 of a top 30 SA thread that either means that people are either unaware of or uneducated about the historical significance of the book (ala the Flash) or being spiteful (in the case of FF #1 or AF #15).

 

And for the record, ASM #1 is definitely a top 30 book if only for J. Jonah Jameson and the FF crossover (tied for 1st). Also definitely a top 20, but top 10 may be debatable. JLA #1 has significance beyond having a #1 on the cover, but I am unaware of any particular significance that GL #1 has beyond that #1 on the cover...

 

I'm betting that DC guys are not going to be very happy with the results of this poll once all is said and done, and more than a few Marvelites will probably be too...

 

[oakman29]

I truly don't understand the debate on whether your a DC guy or a Marvel guy? I love them both,they both bring something cool to the table. I will admit that I have 60% Marvel and 40% DC only because it's so damn hard finding high grade DC keys out there.

[mysterio]

I truly don't understand the debate on whether your a DC guy or a Marvel guy? I love them both,they both bring something cool to the table.

 

It matters because the books you prefer will introduce bias into your arguments. If you collect JLA and GL you would have a natural inclination to put them higher on your list. If you collect FF and Spidey, same deal. If you collect ONLY Marvel or DC then you are more likely to completely dismiss the significance of the other company's offerings, no matter how important they may have been. As you admittedly collect both, you have a more balanced perspective on the matter that would be healthy for this discussion.

 

This poll really measures what books people think are important, and thus perceptions and preferences are going to play a big role in how votes get decided.

[rjpb]

I went with ASM 3, ASM 50, Flash 123, and JLA 1.

 

Sad to see Sgt. Rock going, but it's not too surprising considering the number of cape-lovers here.

 

 

Similar to my choices. I swapped GL #1 for Flash #123 - but it was a contender.

 

While a superhero bias is understandable, there would have been no Silver Age without them, booting Sgt. Rock so early does betray a myopia when it comes to other genres. The success of Sgt. Rock changed the whole nature of war comics, which went from largely being collections of self-contained stories to mostly continuing character books. Sure the concept goes back to the GA, but never had been so successful, and without that shift in content, there'd likely have been no Sgt. Fury, and war comics would have probably faded out far more quickly.

 

ASM #50 was an easy choice as the Kingpin didn't become a major villain until Frank Miller turned him into Daredevil's prime tormentor, and even today he'd rank behind the Green Goblin and Dr. Doom on most people's important villain lists.

 

There is the whole question of wether a character should be considered due to importance to the Silver Age or to the history of comics in general. The multiple worlds concept introduced in Flash #123 had a huge effect in the long run when it comes to the cosmology of the Marvel and DC universes, but at the time it was little more than a gimmick to reintroduce Golden Age characters for team ups and battles, and it wasn't until the Bronze age that DC even began to consider that these characters might be worthy of new stories on their own.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Marvel did not have the golden age history that DC had and bascially threw it out the door. DC on the other hand had this rich history and while needing the silver age change to pull new audience wanted to keep the old.

 

There is a Marvel bias in this thread but hey I'm used to it.

 

Hence the, "albeit, working with a smaller palette"...

 

Have to totally disagree about wanting to keep the old. I very much doubt that Schwartz and the boys had any thought to readers they may have had in the 40's still hanging around in 1961. By 1961, the idea that comics were entertainment for children was firmly entrenched. The by-now adult fans who had stuck around were probably numbered in the dozens, literally.

 

The real motive was probably "nostalgia" strictly on the part of those who worked at DC (a great many of them had been working since the GA, so these wouldn't be new characters to them as working professionals anyways) and even possibly legal ones, as DC had a vast stable of characters for which copyrights needed to be maintained.

 

Schwartz's redesign of Flash, and the subsequent treatment of nearly all GA DC characters, was genius, but it did leave the question of what to do with the GA characters...a solution elegantly resolved in Flash #123. Obvious to us in hindsight, with 50 years of history to look back on, but quite ingenious at the time, and very groundbreaking.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is a Marvel bias in this thread but hey I'm used to it.

 

Sure there is (and I'm a Marvel guy myself) but there is bias inherent in the process anytime you try to determine anything by a poll. This is a popularity contest that will unfortunately probably not have anything to do with significance the poll was set up to measure. It is great fun, and I'm enjoying the thread, but anytime you see people voting for AF #15 or Flash #123 to be in the bottom 4 of a top 30 SA thread that either means that people are either unaware of or uneducated about the historical significance of the book (ala the Flash) or being spiteful (in the case of FF #1 or AF #15).

 

And for the record, ASM #1 is definitely a top 30 book if only for J. Jonah Jameson and the FF crossover (tied for 1st). Also definitely a top 20, but top 10 may be debatable. JLA #1 has significance beyond having a #1 on the cover, but I am unaware of any particular significance that GL #1 has beyond that #1 on the cover...

 

JJJ is important to Spidey, not the Marvel U. ASM #1 is a top 50 book, perhaps, but not a top 30...in terms of importance.

 

Oh, and neither JLA #1 nor GL #1 have "#1" on the covers....

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This poll really measures what books people think are important.

 

But that's how these things are always decided anyways, by definition, whether it's a poll on the CGC boards, or an article written in Wizard Comics Buyer's Guide.

 

The real trick is simple education. If people are made aware of why Brand X has historical importance, then they can form a better opinion. They may not change their preferences, but at least they can approach it rationally, instead of simply dismissing something because "they don't like it."

 

I can't stand slamon. I do, however, understand that salmon is very good for you, containing Omega 3s and other nutritional benefits. I won't touch it, but I understand why it is beneficial, and would encourage people who DO like it to eat it, including fixing it for my children, if they so desired.

 

The same concept applies here.

 

[Rosland]

Why not have fans of particular issues on the list write a paragraph on the

importance of an issue? A bit of education can be interesting too. I think I know

almost all of them, but there are a couple (like Sgt Rock) which I've never thought

about.

[Sal]

it's both sad and hilarious that OOAW 83 has more votes than Sgt. Fury 1, the latter book having been conceived merely as a bet between Lee and Goodman that the Marvel method would sell books regardless of content or title

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's beyond ridiculous that Flash #123, the foundation of DC continuity for 50 years, has the second most votes, behind only a second rate villain's intro.

 

Seriously, people. It's more important to comics history than a good 1/3rd of the other books.

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Asm 3

Asm 50

Gl 1

Jla 1

 

 

For what it is worth I do not think asm 50 is close to being a top 30 silver age book despite the nice cover and kingpin app.

 

+1 My votes exactly !

[Ken Aldred]

Hi, George!

 

Thought I'd have a go.

 

My votes... ASM 3, ASM 50, TTA 27, GL 1

 

[tth2]

There is the whole question of wether a character should be considered due to importance to the Silver Age or to the history of comics in general. The multiple worlds concept introduced in Flash #123 had a huge effect in the long run when it comes to the cosmology of the Marvel and DC universes, but at the time it was little more than a gimmick to reintroduce Golden Age characters for team ups and battles, and it wasn't until the Bronze age that DC even began to consider that these characters might be worthy of new stories on their own.

 

Yes, but you`re overlooking that the Earth 2 storylines were immensely popular AT THE TIME. Particularly in JLA, the crossovers from Earth 2 were the most anticipated issues each year and also produced some of the best stories. They are by far my favorite JLA issues.

[tth2]

it's both sad and hilarious that OOAW 83 has more votes than Sgt. Fury 1, the latter book having been conceived merely as a bet between Lee and Goodman that the Marvel method would sell books regardless of content or title

1. It has "Marvel Comics" on the cover.

 

2. It ended up being a pretty good series in its own right.

 

3. It has "Marvel Comics" on the cover.

 

4. Sgt. Fury`s popularity has been recently boosted by the possibility of a Nick Fury movie, and today`s comic fans are always happy to allow Hollywood to tell them what they should and shouldn`t like.

 

5. It has "Marvel Comics" on the cover.

 

6. It has a #1 on the cover.

 

7. It doesn`t have "DC Comics" on the cover.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I knew this was going to be Marvel bias when people voted TAS 27(Ant-Man) over Showcase 34(Atom) I guess some people didn`t realize the Atom made his debut before Ant-man by a few months!

[1koko]

Hi, George!

 

Thought I'd have a go.

 

My votes... ASM 3, ASM 50, TTA 27, GL 1

[1koko]

With less than half an hour to go there is currently a tie for 28th position between B&B #34 and OOAW #83.

 

If it stays that way there will be a stay of execution for both and 4 rather than 3 will be voted off during following round.

 

 

[1koko]

Poll closed.

 

29th ASM #3

30th Flash #123

31st ASM #50

 

2 Marvels and 1 DC exit the poll.

 

Two tied at 27th B&B #34 and OAAW #83 live for another round.

 

Thanks to all for voting.

 

Next round up in 5 mins.

[thirdgreenham]

thanks for the fun thread!