PGX Question

[Tony S]

 

I'm perfectly calm, thank you.

 

How many times do I need to say this, though?

 

PGX is a scam. They don't have a "facility", they have a garage. Their head grader sells books he slabbed himself on ebay. Their grading & restoration detection skills are a joke.

 

That's it.

 

This is not something that's up for discussion - it's not an opinion - it's a fact.

 

You seem to be bending over backwards to find ways of legitimizing sending books their way and, to be honest, it's getting a bit tiresome. It's like that that that keeps them in business when the industry as a whole would be much better off with them being run out of town like the crooks they are.

 

 

You say you are perfectly calm, but then call me names. For no other reason than I don't 100% agree with you.

 

What we do agree on:

 

Yes, PGX is much smaller. I've heard some say it is in a garage and others say it is in a basement. I don't know if I care that their facility is vasltly smaller. But I agree that it is.

 

I didn't know it was their "head grader" that was selling PGX graded books. Some people have claimed that PGX has no employees other than the owner so I guess this settles that debate. But Yes I knew that they allow employees to buy and sell PGX graded books. And I stated it was unwise and encouraged unethical behavior. We agree that it is unethical for any employee of PGX to get books graded by PGX and then sell them. CGC's standard for this is the way it ought to be.

 

Where we niether agree or disagree:

 

I don't have any first hand knowledge of restoration detection skills and have said so. I have neither agreed nor disagreed with those statements. Maybe you have sent in some PGX graded books that came back PLOD? If so I'm sorry.

 

I've only had one Signature Series book (CGC) done ever. I have no idea what PGX does. I only observed that other boardies have lamented that it is unreasonable they cannot get signed books authenticated when they have substantial proof that the signature is authentic.

 

Where we disagree:

 

I don't care who graded a book I would like to purchase. CGC, PGX, the Local Comic Shop or a boardie on the for sale forum. I inspect the book before I buy or I only buy from someone that says they take returns on items I cannot inspect first. I collect comic books. Period.

 

I think there are situations - like Andy70's described scenario - where it could make sense to use PGX for grading. And in Andy70's scenario, no one is trying to pull a scam. He just wants a few extemely low value books encapsulated for sentimental reasons.

 

Really - do we disagree on enough things that name calling is called for?

[Beige]

HeHe...If I'm held up as the voice of reason - this thread is whack!

[Calidream'n]

 

I'm perfectly calm, thank you.

 

How many times do I need to say this, though?

 

PGX is a scam. They don't have a "facility", they have a garage. Their head grader sells books he slabbed himself on ebay. Their grading & restoration detection skills are a joke.

 

That's it.

 

This is not something that's up for discussion - it's not an opinion - it's a fact.

 

You seem to be bending over backwards to find ways of legitimizing sending books their way and, to be honest, it's getting a bit tiresome. It's like that that that keeps them in business when the industry as a whole would be much better off with them being run out of town like the crooks they are.

 

 

Where we disagree:

 

 

 

I think there are situations - like Andy70's described scenario - where it could make sense to use PGX for grading.

 

You forgot a few:

1) You've been smoking crack

2) You're somehow related to the head scammer er, grader

3) You've got an otherwise nice GA book loaded with resto and are hoping for a resto-free label

4) You really want a modern in a 10 (MINT) and dammit if CGC doesnt have one graded that high

5) You've completely lost your mind/ethics/common sense

 

[Balham's Finest]

I don't care who graded a book I would like to purchase. CGC, PGX, the Local Comic Shop or a boardie on the for sale forum. I inspect the book before I buy or I only buy from someone that says they take returns on items I cannot inspect first. I collect comic books. Period.

 

I think there are situations - like Andy70's described scenario - where it could make sense to use PGX for grading. And in Andy70's scenario, no one is trying to pull a scam. He just wants a few extemely low value books encapsulated for sentimental reasons.

 

Tony, this is the piece that people disagree with. The fuNdamental objection is to doing business with a company that has made money out of scamming honest collectors. It doesn't matter whether anyone is trying to pull a scam or not in Andy's particular scenario. It doesn't matter whether their grading is or is not tighter at the higher grades. The point is that it is wrong to support an unethical, borderline criminal business.

 

You may not care with whom you do business, but it appears that the vast majority of boardies do.

 

 

[Underground44]

 

I'm perfectly calm, thank you.

 

How many times do I need to say this, though?

 

PGX is a scam. They don't have a "facility", they have a garage. Their head grader sells books he slabbed himself on ebay. Their grading & restoration detection skills are a joke.

 

That's it.

 

This is not something that's up for discussion - it's not an opinion - it's a fact.

 

You seem to be bending over backwards to find ways of legitimizing sending books their way and, to be honest, it's getting a bit tiresome. It's like that that that keeps them in business when the industry as a whole would be much better off with them being run out of town like the crooks they are.

 

 

Where we disagree:

 

 

 

I think there are situations - like Andy70's described scenario - where it could make sense to use PGX for grading.

 

You forgot a few:

1) You've been smoking crack

2) You're somehow related to the head scammer er, grader

3) You've got an otherwise nice GA book loaded with resto and are hoping for a resto-free label

4) You really want a modern in a 10 (MINT) and dammit if CGC doesnt have one graded that high

5) You've completely lost your mind/ethics/common sense

 

You obviously didn't read the whole thread to get the context but that's pretty normal for some around here... Oh yeah and you can add a couple more points to your idiotic list

 

6) That's a completely unwarranted attack

7) You are a jerk

[reddwarf666222]

I don't care who graded a book I would like to purchase. CGC, PGX, the Local Comic Shop or a boardie on the for sale forum. I inspect the book before I buy or I only buy from someone that says they take returns on items I cannot inspect first. I collect comic books. Period.

 

I think there are situations - like Andy70's described scenario - where it could make sense to use PGX for grading. And in Andy70's scenario, no one is trying to pull a scam. He just wants a few extemely low value books encapsulated for sentimental reasons.

 

Tony, this is the piece that people disagree with. The fuNdamental objection is to doing business with a company that has made money out of scamming honest collectors. It doesn't matter whether anyone is trying to pull a scam or not in Andy's particular scenario. It doesn't matter whether their grading is or is not tighter at the higher grades. The point is that it is wrong to support an unethical, borderline criminal business.

 

You may not care with whom you do business, but it appears that the vast majority of boardies do.

 

So how about a company that could be sued for not making there turnaround times in a timely fashion. A company whose people are so misinformed that they give you turnaround times that are not even close to where they are. A company whose grading standards have relaxed with the addition of more graders. A company unwilling to give a Signature Series label for comics/magazines with a Dynamic forces seal and COA. A company in which you could just have the artist or writer go over their old signature and get the yellow SS label. The CGC is not perfect either. Alot of the complaints I see people bringing up against PGX are from issues that happened six years ago. Six years is a long time. As far as Mschmidt your taking this thread too seriously and at over 14,000 posts get a life.

[Underground44]

Holy mess

 

Wait for it.......

[reddwarf666222]

What about books you just want to get put in a holder for storage reasons?

Not expensive books, lets say, I want to buy 'Transmetropolitan #1' as I really loved the book (which I actually do!) but wanted to keep a nice copy somewhere as a 'reminder' when I see it to go dig out a reader and enjoy the story again?

Is that going to harm?

Theres no value financially but I certainly collect #1's of stories I love as a 'library' to remind me periodically to go read them again.

DMZ and Lucifer would be 2 good examples.

No financial worth but wonderful stories.

At $10 ish would it not be ok to get it slabbed?

Seriously after an opinion not a fight!!

 

I think with the criteria you outline considering the "other place" makes perfect sense.

 

I might suggest though you also look around to see if you can find those books already slabbed and for sale. Sometimes you can inexpensive books already slabbed and pay no more, sometimes less, than slabbing them yourself. Sometimes. Not always, not even most of the time. But it's worth checking around.

This is where I think the CGC could offer another service and that is a slabbing fee without grading for the people who just want their comics protected, but don't want a grade.

[reddwarf666222]

Holy mess

 

Wait for it.......

[Underground44]

What about books you just want to get put in a holder for storage reasons?

Not expensive books, lets say, I want to buy 'Transmetropolitan #1' as I really loved the book (which I actually do!) but wanted to keep a nice copy somewhere as a 'reminder' when I see it to go dig out a reader and enjoy the story again?

Is that going to harm?

Theres no value financially but I certainly collect #1's of stories I love as a 'library' to remind me periodically to go read them again.

DMZ and Lucifer would be 2 good examples.

No financial worth but wonderful stories.

At $10 ish would it not be ok to get it slabbed?

Seriously after an opinion not a fight!!

 

I think with the criteria you outline considering the "other place" makes perfect sense.

 

I might suggest though you also look around to see if you can find those books already slabbed and for sale. Sometimes you can inexpensive books already slabbed and pay no more, sometimes less, than slabbing them yourself. Sometimes. Not always, not even most of the time. But it's worth checking around.

This is where I think the CGC could offer another service and that is a slabbing fee without grading for the people who just want their comics protected, but don't want a grade.

 

I agree with this 100% I for one would use that service to protect books that I dont intend selling. It'd be good for display purposes too.

[Balham's Finest]

Ok, I'll have a go:

 

So how about a company that could be sued for not making there turnaround times in a timely fashion.

Not criminal

 

A company whose people are so misinformed that they give you turnaround times that are not even close to where they are.

Not criminal

 

A company whose grading standards have relaxed with the addition of more graders.

Not criminal

 

A company unwilling to give a Signature Series label for comics/magazines with a Dynamic forces seal and COA.

Not criminal

 

A company in which you could just have the artist or writer go over their old signature and get the yellow SS label.

Wouldn't happen.

 

The CGC is not perfect either.

Agreed. Not criminal.

 

Alot of the complaints I see people bringing up against PGX are from issues that happened six years ago. Six years is a long time.

So? It's the same people. If you were defrauded, would you forget about it after six years?

 

As far as Mschmidt your taking this thread too seriously and at over 14,000 posts get a life.

Playground level response.

[Calidream'n]

 

I'm perfectly calm, thank you.

 

How many times do I need to say this, though?

 

PGX is a scam. They don't have a "facility", they have a garage. Their head grader sells books he slabbed himself on ebay. Their grading & restoration detection skills are a joke.

 

That's it.

 

This is not something that's up for discussion - it's not an opinion - it's a fact.

 

You seem to be bending over backwards to find ways of legitimizing sending books their way and, to be honest, it's getting a bit tiresome. It's like that that that keeps them in business when the industry as a whole would be much better off with them being run out of town like the crooks they are.

 

 

Where we disagree:

 

 

 

I think there are situations - like Andy70's described scenario - where it could make sense to use PGX for grading.

 

You forgot a few:

1) You've been smoking crack

2) You're somehow related to the head scammer er, grader

3) You've got an otherwise nice GA book loaded with resto and are hoping for a resto-free label

4) You really want a modern in a 10 (MINT) and dammit if CGC doesnt have one graded that high

5) You've completely lost your mind/ethics/common sense

 

You obviously didn't read the whole thread to get the context but that's pretty normal for some around here... Oh yeah and you can add a couple more points to your idiotic list

 

6) That's a completely unwarranted attack

7) You are a jerk

Unwarranted? Are you serious? This guy is a documented scammer! But then again, youre probably the same kind of d-bag that thinks its ok to buy from Robojo...as long as it fits your needs.

Bottom line: This "company", which is really one guy, is a scammer, plain and simple. Supporting a scam is not "OK" on any level. Youre the jerk. Take that. Hmpft.

[AnkurJ]

This seems to have gone from comics to childish fighting

[Mike's Rack]

This seems to have gone from comics to childish fighting

WTTB

[Mike's Rack]

I'm with Schmidt on this one. Not based on rumors and gossip but based on my experiences and those of friends. I was at a con a while back and I saw a wall of graded books - all PGX. I turned and walked away. Where there some on the wall that were undergraded? probably Where there some on the wall that were resto free? sure Was it worth my time to figure out which ones? no The PGX books told me everything I needed to know about that dealer and I took my money elsewhere.

 

 

[Calidream'n]

This seems to have gone from comics to childish fighting

Look, I'm not above throwing a name back at someone if they initiate that kind of thing. Sometimes certain people respond best to what they understand.

On that note, buying from this scammer and thinking it's ok is the same as saying it's "OK" for a professional sports athlete to bet on a game he is going to be playing in. Both are in a postion to "stack the deck" as it were in favor of making some big money. A pity, a shame and lacking morals and ethics all around. Pathetic are the people that know this and still support him.

[oakman29]

I'm with Schmidt on this one. Not based on rumors and gossip but based on my experiences and those of friends. I was at a con a while back and I saw a wall of graded books - all PGX. I turned and walked away. Where there some on the wall that were undergraded? probably Where there some on the wall that were resto free? sure Was it worth my time to figure out which ones? no The PGX books told me everything I needed to know about that dealer and I took my money elsewhere.

 

I know exactly what dealer you're talking about. He asks me to come over and look at his stuff,and I told him sorry not interested.He gets all bent out of shape,as I ignore his rant.

[etanick]

A company in which you could just have the artist or writer go over their old signature and get the yellow SS label.

Wouldn't happen.

 

It did happen...an X-men #1 with Stan Sig was Re signed over the old sig to get yellow label.

 

and that is just one proven example shown here on the board. I doubt this is a one and only time.

[Balham's Finest]

A company in which you could just have the artist or writer go over their old signature and get the yellow SS label.

Wouldn't happen.

 

It did happen...an X-men #1 with Stan Sig was Re signed over the old sig to get yellow label.

 

and that is just one proven example shown here on the board. I doubt this is a one and only time.

 

I based that on the responses I got when I raised this exact question in THIS THREAD.

 

The answers refer to a Stan incident which might be the one you're talking about. In any case, maybe I should amend by saying yes, you could get a yellow label (fine, if the sig is properly witnessed) with a grade drop or note to compensate for the previous sig.

[etanick]

no, that is not the one incident I am talking about. Go the Silver Age forum and the X-men #1 Club thread. There is a member there that bought an old raw X-men #1 book with Stan Sig on it. He sub it for Sig last year where Stan traced/signed over the old sig and he got the yellow label.