A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes? 5 5

[J.Sid]

Just checked and there are three Byrne X-Men pages on Heritage in that range (not counting the 137 page that went for $65k) and two on CLINK. And there've been a handful of recent private sales (that I know of anyway) in that range ($20k-$40k)

 

 

 

 

[inovrmihd]

The 113 was mine. The 139 was a retelling of Wolverine's origin, so arguably didn't fit the profile. The 112 barely made breached 20k, and I have heard some say it also has special significance. I think I paid a super high price for a page and that may have affected a few other sales. I am just not sure it is sustainable at that level. I look forward to other's comments.

[J.Sid]

The 113 was mine. The 139 was a retelling of Wolverine's origin, so arguably didn't fit the profile. The 112 barely made breached 20k, and I have heard some say it also has special significance. I think I paid a super high price for a page and that may have affected a few other sales. I am just not sure it is sustainable at that level. I look forward to other's comments.

 

• I didn't think the 112 page was an "A" page (not going to critique it, but it's not an "A" for me), and yet it made it into the $20k-$40k category.

 

• I didn't think the CLink page from February was an "A" either and it landed in that range.

 

• The Wolverine origin recap was more than two years ago. I doubt it could be bought for $25k today. Is that one an A+ as opposed to an A? You could argue it I guess. If any flashback page can qualify, this would be the one.

 

Regardless, we are left with five examples of public auction data to go along with the sales we know of behind closed doors.

 

 

 

[heartened]

No word from the moderators? This is an important list and undertaking, though. I'd suggest someone put this ont the web somewhere accessible via a link, and then we can update that list only when consensus is reached on things. Who wants to "own" this? That way, it is "locked" by having only one person update it formally, but we can use this thread for discussion and consensus building.

 

[Lago32]

I don't think there are enough data points to be certain on Byrne X-Men pages at $20-$40 thousand. It only takes two bidders to drive the price up at auction. I was the first person I am aware of to pay that kind of money publicly and I'm out now at those levels for a less than A+ page. There have only been two public sales since then that I know of. They have both been in the same range. I guess what I am suggesting is that maybe there should be an asterisk by this as not yet firmly established.

 

I would say that the $20-30k range for A-level Byrne panel pages is pretty proven by this point - both publicly and especially privately. Heck, even B+ level page are starting to go in the low-end of that range.

[Lago32]

No word from the moderators? This is an important list and undertaking, though. I'd suggest someone put this ont the web somewhere accessible via a link, and then we can update that list only when consensus is reached on things. Who wants to "own" this? That way, it is "locked" by having only one person update it formally, but we can use this thread for discussion and consensus building.

 

Hari - I'd be happy to be the gate-keeper as the original poster but honestly I'm not a techy guy and wouldn't know the first thing about getting everything set up. Perhaps Bill Cox could be convinced to host this informal "price guide" as part of the "Resouces" section of CAF? That would make the most sense and perhaps he could give me authorization to be the one keeper of the list?

[Garf]

There's no reason the original post in this thread can't be the master copy. Would work fine if you put the date of the edits next to the lines you add, append and bracket the previous entry for updates to anything existing and bracket and mark as removed for things you get rid of (again with a date). Dates would make it easy to check the thread for discussion.

 

p.s. what are your thoughts on BWS Machine Man (limited series), does it make the cut?

[heartened]

There's no reason the original post in this thread can't be the master copy. Would work fine if you put the date of the edits next to the lines you add, append and bracket the previous entry for updates to anything existing and bracket and mark as removed for things you get rid of (again with a date). Dates would make it easy to check the thread for discussion.

 

p.s. what are your thoughts on BWS Machine Man (limited series), does it make the cut?

 

I think we need it permanently somewhere. Letting anyone make changes is probably not good at this point. We can take turns "managing" it, but I like the idea of hosting it somewhere for the world to see and use (not just those on these boards). Mike and I have asked Bill Cox to see about it.

 

[heartened]

Hi everyone!

 

Thanks to Bill Cox, we were able to load the list onto his new CAF forums. Please go there and check the forums out. There is a thread there now on the "market data" tab about this value listing. Let's try to move the discussion over there, since we are all members of CAF as well. Only MIke Davis and I can modify the list, but we will be looking for consensus opinion to raise and lower estimated prices, and to add new artist/run combinations. We will, above all else, try to be fair, balanced and without bias. That is why there are two of us in control of the list. Consensus must be reached by the group of all members posting, plus by the two of us.

 

This should be fun. I want to again thank Bill Cox for hosting. See you there!

 

[malvin]

CAF Forums is back! It existed years go but they took it down. Let's see how popular it gets this time around.

 

Malvin

[zhamlau]

Yay!

[Dick O.]

Reposting from another thread.

 

Byrne X-men should probably move into the $30-40k bracket.

 

Certain Copper Age runs have graduated to the $1-2k bracket.

 

Overall I'd say prices plateaued in the final quarter of 2014, with some popular artists' Modern Age OA softening slightly.

 

 

$40k and higher

 

Kirby - Fantastic Four 2up

Ditko - Spider-man

Bolland - Killing Joke

Miller - Dark Knight Returns

Wrightson - Frankenstein Plates

 

$30-40k

 

Romita Sr - Spider-man 2up

Frazetta - Creepy (Werewolf Story)

Ditko - Dr.Strange 2up

Byrne - X-men

 

$20-30k

 

McFarlane - Spider-man (ASM)

Gibbons - Watchmen

Wood - Daredevil

Kirby - Tales of Suspense/Avengers

Steranko - X-men/Other

Miller - 300 (note: each "page" is a DPS)

 

$10-20k

 

Wrightson - Swamp Thing

Miller - DD/Ronin/Wolverine/Sin City

Romita - Spider-man small-art

Neal Adams - Batman/X-men

Kane/Sprang - Batman 2up

Cockrum - X-men 1st run

John Buscema - Silver Surfer

BWS - Conan

Frazetta - Thun’da/Others

Kirby/Stone - Journey into Mystery/X-men 2up

Bolland - Judge Dredd

Totleben - Miracleman

McKean - Arkham Asylum

Lloyd - V for Vendetta

Kieth - Sandman

Dringenberg - Sandman

Kirby FF - small-art

Everett - GA work

Leach - Miracleman

 

$5-10k

 

Totleben - Swamp Thing

Swan - Superman 2up

Kubert - Hawkman/War Art 2up

Sekowsky - JLA 2up (Crisis issues)

Perez/Marcos - Avengers 1st run

Mignola - Hellboy

Buscema - Avengers 1st run

Marshall Rogers - Detective

Neal Adams - Deadman/Green Lantern/Avengers

Mazzucchelli - Daredevil Born Again

Starlin - Captain Marvel and related

Colan - Daredevil

Alex Ross - Marvels/Kingdom Come

Michael Golden - Dr.Strange/Avengers Annual

BWS - Weapon X/Iron Man

Jim Lee - Hush/X-men

Swan/Perez - Superman Man of Tomorrow

Kaluta - Shadow

Byrne - Fantastic Four/Iron Fist

Tony Moore - Walking Dead

Zeck - Punisher/Spidey Kraven Last Hunt

Gibbons - Superman Annual 11

Bachalo - Sandman/Death

Kelley Jones - Sandman

Sienkiewicz - Elektra Assassin

Simonson - Thor (Simonson inks)

Everett - 1970's work

Gulacy - MOKF (pen & ink)

Ditko - Warren work

Wrightson - Warren work

Ware

Miller - ASM Annual

Paul Smith - X-men

 

$3-5k

 

Byrne - Cap/MTU/Avengers 1st run

Infantino - Flash 2up

Gil Kane - Atom/Green Lantern 2up

Perez - New Teen Titans/Crisis/Infinity Gauntlet

Art Adams - Longshot/X-men Annual

Ploog - Werewolf by Night/Ghost Rider

Aparo - Batman 1970’s

Michael Turner - Superman/Batman

Cockrum - X-men 2nd run

Dillon - Preacher

Adlard - Walking Dead

Kirby - Cap 2nd run/DC work

Wood/Ingels/Kurtzman/Davis - EC work

Gulacy - MOKF (other inkers)

JRJR - ASM 1st run

Andru - ASM

Hernandez - Love and Rockets

Colan - TOS/Iron Man 2up

Clowes

BWS - Machine Man

[heartened]

Is Byrne X-Men really at this range for A pages, or for the A+ pages? Let's discuss.

 

[Lago32]

Is Byrne X-Men really at this range for A pages, or for the A+ pages? Let's discuss.

 

No, not yet in my opinion. If the person that suggested this change was basing it on the X142 page that sold for $36k in the last Heritage (to be transparent, I was the consignor of that piece), it doesn't apply as I would say that page is closer to an A+ page.

[J.Sid]

Hmmm. Amazing page, but I say not an A+. It wasn't a memorable moment or key scene, but "merely" an amazingly rendered page with Wolverine all over it. An easy A, but not quite an A+.

 

The scene from that same issue with the Sentinel blasting/killing Wolverine was an A+ and would have gone for twice (at least) what that page ended at.

 

So I'd vote yes, that last auction would be one evidence point of an "A" page landing in the $30k-$40k range. Not enough alone to bump the category, but we'll see what happens in 2015.

[delekkerste]

I would agree that the #142 page was a strong A page, but not an A+ page for precisely the reason you mentioned - it's amazingly rendered, but didn't necessarily feature the most memorable images from the run (I'm sure it was very memorable for some - see below - but I mean broadly speaking and relative to other key scenes). For me, a true A+ page needs to have both.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure there were only two people willing to take this particular page above $30K (me and the guy who won it, whose identity I don't know, but who I was told had very fond memories of that particular Wolvie/Storm interaction). As such, I'm not sure if you can generalize the result to other "A" pages; I know I'm certainly not going to be bidding $30K+ on every such Byrne page that comes around. Also, $30-$40K is a wide range - I suspect that an "A" page probably is right around $30K now, but $30-40K makes it seem like prices are spread throughout that range, when most are probably really pegged closer to the lower end of the range.

[Solar]

Off topic, but I mentioned before that Jill Thompson Sandman should be in the 3-5K tier. A B+ page sold for $3500 in the last clink auction and I sold a borderline A page in that range back in 2008 or so.

 

I'm guessing Hempel would be similar for a true A page, but don't have any first hand knowledge. Hell, you could almost make a listing for "Sandman (Other artist)" in that tier as I think an A page from anybody who worked on the main title is going over 3K at this point.

[Garf]

Off topic, but I mentioned before that Jill Thompson Sandman should be in the 3-5K tier. A B+ page sold for $3500 in the last clink auction and I sold a borderline A page in that range back in 2008 or so.

 

I'm guessing Hempel would be similar for a true A page, but don't have any first hand knowledge. Hell, you could almost make a listing for "Sandman (Other artist)" in that tier as I think an A page from anybody who worked on the main title is going over 3K at this point.

 

Funnily enough I was holding off doing a derail into other artists possibly missing from the list but seeing as you have opened that book ... what about JHW3 DPSes? To me the layout porn alone in Promethea and Batwoman stands out as pushing at the boundaries of comic art. Promethea also has the addition of Alan Moore and associated speech bubbles into the mix which for a lot of people is a big plus. I haven't really seen that many secondary market sales but they do go for a pretty penny at source (sometimes for more than the covers). Are the A examples in the lower brackets on the secondary market?

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=597658&GSub=92901

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=812320&GSub=80942

 

 

[Bird]

It would really be a mind blowing exercise, but it is interesting to consider how many multiples of value an A+ page is over the A/B pages. (Are there D/F pages? I guess so, but in Sandman? Anyway, I digress...) For example, Jill Thompson Sandman A+ may indeed belong in the $3-$5K tier, but I bought ($400/page) and sold (at around $600/page) a 3 page sequence in the last few years and sold a really nice A page for under $2K (Destiny, Dream and Delirium all on page and I had tried selling it for a while, a memorable moment as well - you would remember it immediately). "Lesser" Sandman artists pages are a third of the A+ pages at least, no?

 

And BWS machine man pages are well below $3-$5K for B pages (sold one recently and bought one as well, $1-$2K) but the few excellent pages are indeed 2x-3x that. Same for BWS DD 236, where I could get pages around $1K two years ago and now they are getting closer to $2K for standard pages and one of the best ones is sitting at $7.5K on a dealer's site.

 

Are A+ pages at the higher levels about 3X the value of A-/B+ pages as well? Is that a decent figure: A-/B+ = 33% A+? Or is it different per artist?

[Bird]

Off topic, but I mentioned before that Jill Thompson Sandman should be in the 3-5K tier. A B+ page sold for $3500 in the last clink auction and I sold a borderline A page in that range back in 2008 or so.

 

I'm guessing Hempel would be similar for a true A page, but don't have any first hand knowledge. Hell, you could almost make a listing for "Sandman (Other artist)" in that tier as I think an A page from anybody who worked on the main title is going over 3K at this point.

 

Funnily enough I was holding off doing a derail into other artists possibly missing from the list but seeing as you have opened that book ... what about JHW3 DPSes? To me the layout porn alone in Promethea and Batwoman stands out as pushing at the boundaries of comic art. Promethea also has the addition of Alan Moore and associated speech bubbles into the mix which for a lot of people is a big plus. I haven't really seen that many secondary market sales but they do go for a pretty penny at source (sometimes for more than the covers). Are the A examples in the lower brackets on the secondary market?

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=597658&GSub=92901

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=812320&GSub=80942

 

 

I bought the DPSes from Promethea 24 and 25 IIRC from Mick Gray directly, $400 and $500 at the time of publication. 24 was pedestrian and 25 was stellar. I sold, rebought, and resold the dps for 25 since then (and it is a nice one) and it is $800-$1500 tops. Maybe a little more on a good day but cracking $2.5K would surprise me greatly.