THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[Gotham Kid]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

14 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

I had someone offering me $25K for my 5.0 at the beginning of  this year and he seemed irritated when I passed.

 

I wonder if that was the same guy that tried to convince me that the $35k he was trying to offer me for my 6.5 (also earlier in the year) was a generous offer.   

There can't be two of the same.

[NoMan]

21 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

  I had someone offering me $25K for my 5.0 at the beginning of  this year and he seemed irritated when I passed. 

How does that conversation go exactly?:

Potential Buyer: I'll give you 25k for your 5.0 AF15.

Potential Seller: No, I think it's worth a bit more. I'll just hold on to it for now.

Buyer: It's not worth that.  I'm doing you a favor.

Seller: No that's ok.

Buyer: I'm your only friend. 25k is what it's worth. Everyone knows this except for stupid people. 

Seller: It's ok.  I'm gonna pass.

Buyer: Nobody wants that book.  There's an AF15 bubble and it's popping. It's not rare, you know.  Nobody likes the movies except cos players and they don't have money. I don't even really want it.

Seller: I really think I can realize a little money then you're offering.

Buyer: You can't. It's only worth 25k. Try to pay attention.  I'm telling you the truth. 

Seroiusly, I'm curious how conversations go when indignant buyers don't get what they want.  

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by NoMan

[Glassman10]

Well, it was actually worse than that. I did like the man who made the offer but I couldn't afford to take his offer.

The offer was 25K for the entire collection actually. . This was 950 books most from the silver and early bronze age. I said no, he was not happy and my friend from Shanghai handed me a pile of money and she simply said "Don't do it", so I didn't. Eveline, my best friend in the world. I did sell to Bob on the entire collection, short of my keeping the JIM and the Thor and I'm sort of stupid that way. I kept the AF15 and Bob has it on consignment. It's a very nice 5.0. I'm quite sure he'll sell it and I'm not desperate for the money which seems to determine a lot of prices. I'm relieved the collection is gone in many ways and then again, sometimes I miss it terribly. 

But it is an interesting example of crowd buying fever. It's not a rare book but there are still way more people who want it than there are copies. I think the high end ones will be held and the new frenzy ground that's coming is 4.0 to 5.5.

You all know so much more about this than I do. I just loved Comics and when I found the thing in that school bus fifty years back, it was an.... amazing fantasy... I found a 1909 s VDB once in a roll of coins in Ohio. It still had mint luster. Does anyone out there know about the real  meaning of the fool tarot Card?  I'm it. 

The presumption on the card is the fool, walking towards the cliff will turn away at the very last second never realizing that he was in danger. 

Anybody who want's a nice 5.0, call Bob. I'm giving the money to my son as a down payment on a house.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Glassman10

[alexgross.com]

is GPA completely worthless now? in reference to AF15 prices, they are so far out of touch with reality that one wonders why waste the eleven dollars per month. comiclink just sold a 7.0 for 125k. GPA has 2 sales of a 7.0 this year for 42 and 65k. about half the real price! similar results appear there in almost all grades. whats a 4.5 worth? less than a 4 apparently. a 5.0 goes for a couple grand more than a 4.0. ugh!!! it's way beyond time they start including comiclink results. do they use comicconnect results at least?

i'm so frustrated by this in particular because i have a 4.0 and would love to upgrade to a 4.5 or a 5.0. but there is no good way to know what each half point is worth at this stage. thoughts?

[Ryanfromottawa]

14 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

is GPA completely worthless now? in reference to AF15 prices, they are so far out of touch with reality that one wonders why waste the eleven dollars per month. comiclink just sold a 7.0 for 125k. GPA has 2 sales of a 7.0 this year for 42 and 65k. about half the real price! similar results appear there in almost all grades. whats a 4.5 worth? less than a 4 apparently. a 5.0 goes for a couple grand more than a 4.0. ugh!!! it's way beyond time they start including comiclink results. do they use comicconnect results at least?

i'm so frustrated by this in particular because i have a 4.0 and would love to upgrade to a 4.5 or a 5.0. but there is no good way to know what each half point is worth at this stage. thoughts?

Gpa uses comicconnect, and the best way to track the values of higher end books is to watch the auctions of heritage , comiclink, and comicconnect, as far as 'auction' prices go , 'retail' asking price normally lands 10-20% above that to give room for negotiations. Sometimes it can be a pain in the keeping up with all of that, but I enjoy it

also once books get into higher $ numbers , it's not as though they are traded/sold on a daily basis, and often when they do sell, it is via private sale .... and most of those aren't reported to gpa

Edited September 14, 2017 by Ryanfromottawa

[zhamlau]

14 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

is GPA completely worthless now? in reference to AF15 prices, they are so far out of touch with reality that one wonders why waste the eleven dollars per month. comiclink just sold a 7.0 for 125k. GPA has 2 sales of a 7.0 this year for 42 and 65k. about half the real price! similar results appear there in almost all grades. whats a 4.5 worth? less than a 4 apparently. a 5.0 goes for a couple grand more than a 4.0. ugh!!! it's way beyond time they start including comiclink results. do they use comicconnect results at least?

i'm so frustrated by this in particular because i have a 4.0 and would love to upgrade to a 4.5 or a 5.0. but there is no good way to know what each half point is worth at this stage. thoughts?

Ill be honest, im sorta surprised they dont take a more pro-active stance on maintaining acurate market data...we do pay like 100 a year for the service, it would be nice see they update their site more thoroughly with their approved auction houses. Who is the competitor of GPA again?

[blazingbob]

How do you force someone to report data?  The stress of not knowing just comes pouring out of threads when books are hot.  If you sell a book and made a nice profit on it do you need GPA to substantiate that you did ok?

[zhamlau]

3 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

How do you force someone to report data?  The stress of not knowing just comes pouring out of threads when books are hot.  If you sell a book and made a nice profit on it do you need GPA to substantiate that you did ok?

But CC is a partner of theirs, they provide data...then GPA sells that data back to us for 100 a year. Its not unreasonable to ask for them to upload public auction records of key sales that define the market, otherwise what are we paying for?

 

[blazingbob]

It would not be unreasonable to have them uploading publicly reported sales.  However since I don't see George posting lately I wouldn't know how to ask him why he isn't.  

[zhamlau]

Fair enough, the 5.0 sale at 57k that started all this major AF15 drama...that its not up yet but other sales are is what really bothers me. Still cant figure out what "manually" loaded means. Oh well.

[SECollector]

51 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

But CC is a partner of theirs, they provide data...then GPA sells that data back to us for 100 a year. Its not unreasonable to ask for them to upload public auction records of key sales that define the market, otherwise what are we paying for?

 

I am with you. Its a paid service and if you ask me, they don't really deliver what we are paying for. As mentioned above, a competitor would probably help move the wheels a bit towards the right direction. And I am not referring to private sales. I am referring to reporting HA, CC and CL auctions. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by SECollector

[lou_fine]

53 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Fair enough, the 5.0 sale at 57k that started all this major AF15 drama...that its not up yet but other sales are is what really bothers me.

 

59 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

It would not be unreasonable to have them uploading publicly reported sales.

Bob;

Any truth to the rumours that you now have this 5.0 copy of AF 15 that sold back in March through CC and now have it on your site for sale?

Just trying to confirm that the $57K 5.0 sale was actually successfully completed and if so, should then have definitely been included in the GPA reporting stats. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, www.alexgross.com said:

is GPA completely worthless now? in reference to AF15 prices, they are so far out of touch with reality that one wonders why waste the eleven dollars per month. comiclink just sold a 7.0 for 125k. GPA has 2 sales of a 7.0 this year for 42 and 65k. about half the real price! similar results appear there in almost all grades. whats a 4.5 worth? less than a 4 apparently. a 5.0 goes for a couple grand more than a 4.0. ugh!!! it's way beyond time they start including comiclink results. do they use comicconnect results at least?

i'm so frustrated by this in particular because i have a 4.0 and would love to upgrade to a 4.5 or a 5.0. but there is no good way to know what each half point is worth at this stage. thoughts?

It is obvious to me that you are not taking the wisest approach to determining the proper value on these early Marvels if you are buying by the label, as opposed to buying by the book.

Especially since CGC considers Marvel chipping to be a production issue and hence does not give much weight to this blatant eyesore in determining their final grade.  Any yet at the same time, they will hammer the living daylights out of any near invisible tiny non-color breaking crease or stress that can only be seen when you hold the book up at a certain angle to the light.   

As a result, with these early Marvels and at the price that AF 15's are going for, the most important criteria is to buy the book as opposed to buying the label.  This is why you will often see some absolutely beautiful CGC 5.0 graded copies relative to their assigned grades with no Marvel chipping, and yet at the same time see fugly "almost ripped apart" CGC 6.0 graded copies with huge Marvel chipping running down the entire length of the book.

Which would you pay more for?  It's an absolute no-brainer to me if I was into buying these types of books. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by lou_fine

[blazingbob]

21 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

 

Bob;

Any truth to the rumours that you now have this 5.0 copy of AF 15 that sold back in March through CC and now have it on your site for sale?

Just trying to confirm that the $57K 5.0 sale was actually successfully completed and if so, should then have definitely been included in the GPA reporting stats. 

And yes the 5.0 that sold for $57K is now up for sale on my website.  Was a real sale,  real buyer and a real book.

[blazingbob]

3 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

It is obvious to me that you are not taking the wisest approach to determining the proper value on these early Marvels if you are buying by the label, as opposed to buying by the book.

Especially since CGC considers Marvel chipping to be a production issue and hence does not give much weight to this blatant eyesore in determining their final grade.  Any yet at the same time, they will hammer the living daylights out of any near invisible tiny non-color breaking crease or stress that can only be seen when you hold the book up at a certain angle to the light.   

As a result, with these early Marvels and at the price that AF 15's are going for, the most important criteria is to buy the book as opposed to buying the label.  This is why you will often see some absolutely beautiful CGC 5.0 graded copies relative to their assigned grades with no Marvel chipping, and yet at the same time see fugly "almost ripped apart" CGC 6.0 graded copies with huge Marvel chipping running down the entire length of the book.

Which would you pay more for?  It's an absolute no-brainer to me if I was into buying these types of books. 

Whenever a buyer is buying a book from me I tell them to look at it like you were selling it.  What is your eye drawn to first?  What is your first impression?  Because generally what jumps out at you will will jump out at others.  The real challenge for sellers is if the book has a defect that basically overwhelms the grade or appeal of the book.  So yes you do have to look at the grade but also take into account the eye appeal of the copy in front of you.

[VintageComics]

49 minutes ago, SECollector said:

I am with you. Its a paid service and if you ask me, they don't really deliver what we are paying for. As mentioned above, a competitor would probably help move the wheels a bit towards the right direction. And I am not referring to private sales. I am referring to reporting HA, CC and CL auctions. 

You are getting the service that you are paying for.

You are getting a nice compilation of all the sales data that is submitted to GPA, including eBay and Heritage and any dealer submissions.

GPA's job is not to follow around dealers and force them to submit data. They can only assume that dealers who submit are doing it properly.

[Glassman10]

1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Whenever a buyer is buying a book from me I tell them to look at it like you were selling it.  What is your eye drawn to first?  What is your first impression?  Because generally what jumps out at you will will jump out at others.  The real challenge for sellers is if the book has a defect that basically overwhelms the grade or appeal of the book.  So yes you do have to look at the grade but also take into account the eye appeal of the copy in front of you.

I happen to agree, "buy the book, not the grade".  When I worked my AF 15 that Bob has, I took the time to shoot pictures of every page of the story and Bob knows I'll make it available. I also have shots prior to the slabbing.  Bottom line to me is you should feel good about the purchase.  I too think  GPA could be a whole lot better. I've heard from an undisclosed source that there are some houses which aren't recorded because they tinker with their real bids. I don't know that but I wouldn't doubt it. My gut feeling is that the company store aspect is way too close.  I may be kind of new but I'm not stupid.

[SECollector]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

You are getting the service that you are paying for.

You are getting a nice compilation of all the sales data that is submitted to GPA, including eBay and Heritage and any dealer submissions.

GPA's job is not to follow around dealers and force them to submit data. They can only assume that dealers who submit are doing it properly.

OK, I can rephrase: I am not getting the service I thought I would get when I signed up. I thought I would get a really updated tracking of public sales at least for the big books. Its the best in its category (and the only one probably?), but the quality of the service provided can be much higher (i.e. including books from the other company as well). And allow me to disagree slightly and just hint that it actually might be their job to follow around the big selling venues like CL and CC and track down and register the sales. Its kind of why they are paid for. In my book if one single public sale is not published and taken into account then there is space for market manipulation. 

I mean, if we had the option tomorrow of a new service that actively tracks and register all public sales for CGC and the other company, who would you give your money to each month?

Anyway we are out of topic, and I don't have anything really against GPA, but I absolutely believe that there is space for improvement. Cheers.

[Glassman10]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

You are getting the service that you are paying for.

You are getting a nice compilation of all the sales data that is submitted to GPA, including eBay and Heritage and any dealer submissions.

GPA's job is not to follow around dealers and force them to submit data. They can only assume that dealers who submit are doing it properly.

 

 

5 minutes ago, SECollector said:

OK, I can rephrase: I am not getting the service I thought I would get when I signed up. I thought I would get a really updated tracking of public sales at least for the big books. Its the best in its category (and the only one probably?), but the quality of the service provided can be much higher (i.e. including books from the other company as well). And allow me to disagree slightly and just hint that it actually might be their job to follow around the big selling venues like CL and CC and track down and register the sales. Its kind of why they are paid for. In my book if one single public sale is not published and taken into account then there is space for market manipulation. 

I mean, if we had the option tomorrow of a new service that actively tracks and register all public sales for CGC and the other company, who would you give your money to each month?

Anyway we are out of topic, and I don't have anything really against GPA, but I absolutely believe that there is space for improvement. Cheers.

 

5 minutes ago, SECollector said:

OK, I can rephrase: I am not getting the service I thought I would get when I signed up. I thought I would get a really updated tracking of public sales at least for the big books. Its the best in its category (and the only one probably?), but the quality of the service provided can be much higher (i.e. including books from the other company as well). And allow me to disagree slightly and just hint that it actually might be their job to follow around the big selling venues like CL and CC and track down and register the sales. Its kind of why they are paid for. In my book if one single public sale is not published and taken into account then there is space for market manipulation. 

I mean, if we had the option tomorrow of a new service that actively tracks and register all public sales for CGC and the other company, who would you give your money to each month?

Anyway we are out of topic, and I don't have anything really against GPA, but I absolutely believe that there is space for improvement. Cheers.

I disagree. You are not out of topic at all. When a book sells for 10-700K, it's quite pertinent to the topic. I think the role of GPA should be as a reporter: to ferret out the facts.  In the market, It's pretty important to me to know the sales of VISA in real time. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Glassman10

[VintageComics]

1 minute ago, SECollector said:

And allow me to disagree slightly and just hint that it actually might be their job to follow around the big selling venues like CL and CC and track down and register the sales. Its kind of why they are paid for. In my book if one single public sale is not published and taken into account then there is space for market manipulation. 

Again, what you are asking for is an impossible task.

The point of GPA is to track sales of books on various sites that allow it to use it's data publicly as well as take submissions from dealers who submit.

GPA has recorded 2.4 MIL sales thus far.

It would be impossible to police all of the various sites to make sure data sets are comprehensive and complete. You're talking about literally 100's or even 100's of sales recorded every day.

4 minutes ago, SECollector said:

In my book if one single public sale is not published and taken into account then there is space for market manipulation. 

There is always space for market manipulation.

5 minutes ago, SECollector said:

I mean, if we had the option tomorrow of a new service that actively tracks and register all public sales for CGC and the other company, who would you give your money to each month?

No service will ever have all public sales. Some companies won't let their sales be recorded and sold. Others don't post all their sales.

Currently, GPA is the best you have for what you're looking for.

People want EVERYTHING in a neat box. Nothing ever happens that way. There's always some market research involved.

And I don't think it's a bad discussion. It's worth having, no matter which thread it's in.