Surprise restoration grade. How do I not get screwed again?

[jmh722]

So I just got back my first CGC graded book today, a Daredevil #1 graded 6.5, and it turns out that it was restored at some point. Apparently there was a small bit of "professional" ink-line restoration in the Marvel price box, in the upper left-hand corner.

The thing is I have no idea how I would have known to look for that.

Is there a way to have a better eye for restoration in the future? Or should I chalk this up to a "sh*t happens" moment, and just assume that this is the risk of buying raw comics?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[Junkdrawer]

Buy from a reputable dealer that will stand behind what they sell or buy CGCed already for sense of security.

[jmh722]

That's actually a good point. I omitted that I bought this on eBay, and I do a lot of raw issue purchases there, so it wasn't like going to my local dealer, who I trust implicitly.

This thread may be a moot point, but it just stings to get a restoration back.

[zosocane]

Buy from a reputable dealer that will stand behind what they sell or buy CGCed already for sense of security.

 

This. If you're going to buy raw books priced at, say, $250 and up, you have to buy from a reputable dealer that will take a book back if it comes back PLOD. You might be paying more going through a reputable dealer, but this premium eliminates the risk of a resto surprise.

[Zevgoli]

Once I bought an Our Army At War 182 off of eBay and after CGC grading came back as restored with minour colour touch. I went over both front and back with a magnifying glass and close vision and could see nothing wrong. I just chalked it up to bad experience. I think that for some sellers they don't disclose restoration because they genuinely don't see it. I can see that happening since it can be tough for me to see colour touch up especially as in my case it was professional.

 

Since then for keys and books I want for SS I buy slabbed. It's the only way to get piece of mind.

 

Cheers, Howard

[thehumantorch]

Sorry to hear it. I think most of us have had books come back from CGC as restored. It really is a minefield out there, tons of dishonest sellers and guys who don't know how to grade or detect restoration. There's a reason so many raw books sell cheap on ebay.

 

Buying off trusted sellers is important. Also consider auction houses like comiclink, heritage, etc.

 

There are threads here devoted to restoration. Try searching for them and I'll have a look also. Learning how to spot restoration is very important if you're gonna buy and submit raw books.

 

I'm hardly an expert but I'd recommend looking at your books in strong light. Angle the book from your eyes and look for changes in the way the light reflects off the cover. Also examine the inside carefully for any bleed through.

 

I believe there's also a ebook on detecting restoration by Tracy Heft on ebay. He's a restoration expert and the book should help.

 

Here's a restoration thread link

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7257

[Junkdrawer]

While at a show I often use the built in flash light from my iPhone, talk about a handy tool. Try it sometime. Anyone else ever try it?

[jmh722]

This is all really great advice. I'll look for the book now. Since I am more of a bargain hunter, I've resigned myself to eBay and cons. It sounds like I just know what to look for, and pester the seller for photos.

And the smartphone flash is totally McGuyver. Need to do that way more often.

Thanks again.

[rodan57]

So I just got back my first CGC graded book today, a Daredevil #1 graded 6.5, and it turns out that it was restored at some point. Apparently there was a small bit of "professional" ink-line restoration in the Marvel price box, in the upper left-hand corner.

The thing is I have no idea how I would have known to look for that.

Is there a way to have a better eye for restoration in the future? Or should I chalk this up to a "sh*t happens" moment, and just assume that this is the risk of buying raw comics?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

Researching black light is worth while. (thumbs u

 

Greetings

 

I've finally decided that it's time to post to these forums (long overdue some might add). In regards to FF's question about shortwave UV light for detection of restoration, here is an explanation of how UV radiation works from UVP's catalog:

 

"An interesting characteristic of UV radiation occurs when it falls upon certain substances known as phosphors, wehre it causes the phosphors to emit specific radiation. This phenomenon is known as fluorescence. "

 

"One effect of UV energy upon certain substances is a phenomenon that takes place at the atomic level. High frequency UV protons collide with atoms and part of the photon's energy is transferred to the atoms by boosting electrons to the high energy states. Upon de-excitation, as electrons fall back to lower energy states, energy is released as photons of light. Since only a portion of the incoming photon's energy was transferred to an electron, these emitted photon's have less energy than the incoming UV photons so their wavelengths are longer than the excitation photons. This process is called fluorescence."

 

I would think that shortwave would work just as well at detection of restored areas as longwave, but due to the extreme health hazard shortwave poses (we are talking waves in the vicinity of x-rays!!!) the gains wouldn't outweigh the health concerns.

 

Tracey Heft

Eclipse Paper Conservation

 

[joeypost]

So I just got back my first CGC graded book today, a Daredevil #1 graded 6.5, and it turns out that it was restored at some point. Apparently there was a small bit of "professional" ink-line restoration in the Marvel price box, in the upper left-hand corner.

The thing is I have no idea how I would have known to look for that.

Is there a way to have a better eye for restoration in the future? Or should I chalk this up to a "sh*t happens" moment, and just assume that this is the risk of buying raw comics?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

Researching black light is worth while. (thumbs u

 

Greetings

 

I've finally decided that it's time to post to these forums (long overdue some might add). In regards to FF's question about shortwave UV light for detection of restoration, here is an explanation of how UV radiation works from UVP's catalog:

 

"An interesting characteristic of UV radiation occurs when it falls upon certain substances known as phosphors, wehre it causes the phosphors to emit specific radiation. This phenomenon is known as fluorescence. "

 

"One effect of UV energy upon certain substances is a phenomenon that takes place at the atomic level. High frequency UV protons collide with atoms and part of the photon's energy is transferred to the atoms by boosting electrons to the high energy states. Upon de-excitation, as electrons fall back to lower energy states, energy is released as photons of light. Since only a portion of the incoming photon's energy was transferred to an electron, these emitted photon's have less energy than the incoming UV photons so their wavelengths are longer than the excitation photons. This process is called fluorescence."

 

I would think that shortwave would work just as well at detection of restored areas as longwave, but due to the extreme health hazard shortwave poses (we are talking waves in the vicinity of x-rays!!!) the gains wouldn't outweigh the health concerns.

 

Tracey Heft

Eclipse Paper Conservation

 

 

Black light will not catch all kinds of color touch. While all these things will help, nothing can replace a trained eye.

[porky]

some books have come back restored that were bought off the racks by the original owners. sometimes "resto" is imaginary. like that JIM 83 that flip-flopped more times than a politician.

[kav]

Silver sharpie-thats how you turn a purple label blue

[rjpb]

So far I've had nothing come back a PLOD, though I've sent a couple books off with fingers crossed. I have bought restored books unknowingly. Looking at them years later I should have caught the resto, but I didn't think that much about it at the time.

 

Buying raw, especially when hunting for deals, restoration is always going to be a risk, and the lack of disclosure is not always deliberate. Between sellers not always knowing what to look for, and some resto being very hard to catch, it happens. Hell, even CGC has changed their mind on a book.

 

It really sucks if it's a major purchase, but if you're scoring books here and there for far less than FMV, you're going to get a few disappointments now and then. It also helps if you don't look at restored books as automatic garbage and can still enjoy them for the 99.9% of the book that hasn't been doctored.

[jimjum12]

So far I've had nothing come back a PLOD, though I've sent a couple books off with fingers crossed. I have bought restored books unknowingly. Looking at them years later I should have caught the resto, but I didn't think that much about it at the time.

 

Buying raw, especially when hunting for deals, restoration is always going to be a risk, and the lack of disclosure is not always deliberate. Between sellers not always knowing what to look for, and some resto being very hard to catch, it happens. Hell, even CGC has changed their mind on a book.

 

It really sucks if it's a major purchase, but if you're scoring books here and there for far less than FMV, you're going to get a few disappointments now and then. It also helps if you don't look at restored books as automatic garbage and can still enjoy them for the 99.9% of the book that hasn't been doctored.

 

...... and with the OP's example, a DD 1 with only a dot of color touch in the logo box...... maybe 99.9999999% unrestored ? Sounds like a damn nice book ..... I think I would've missed it as well. I have to admit that I sometimes bristle when I hear folks refer to sellers as "greedy", "dishonest", "unable to detect resto", etc...... when they bought the book, likely had a few weeks return policy, and ALSO missed the restoration theirselves...... but I suppose it's human nature to want to assign blame somewhere other than home. I'm with the others in respect to holding out for the CGC copy. If you buy a raw book and go ahead and submit it...... whose move is that ? That being said, I've missed resto several times and always bought the book back plus shipping. I really think the vast majority of we boardies would..... at least those of us who've stuck around long enough to make friends with each other. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

[thunsicker]

And any time you are buying a big book like this it doesn't hurt to talk to the seller ahead of time and set up some kind of return policy if restoration is detected. Most good sellers will be happy to set up some kind of return policy if it turns out to be restored. If the seller isn't willing to work with you on this ahead of time just find another book. They aren't that rare.

[divad]

Buy from a reputable dealer that will stand behind what they sell or buy CGCed already for sense of security.

 

This, but I rarely buy single books from anyone. I try to limit my purchases to entire OO collections. In the long run (if you have sufficient storage area) you will do much better.

[bluechip]

So far I've had nothing come back a PLOD, though I've sent a couple books off with fingers crossed. I have bought restored books unknowingly. Looking at them years later I should have caught the resto, but I didn't think that much about it at the time.

 

Buying raw, especially when hunting for deals, restoration is always going to be a risk, and the lack of disclosure is not always deliberate. Between sellers not always knowing what to look for, and some resto being very hard to catch, it happens. Hell, even CGC has changed their mind on a book.

 

It really sucks if it's a major purchase, but if you're scoring books here and there for far less than FMV, you're going to get a few disappointments now and then. It also helps if you don't look at restored books as automatic garbage and can still enjoy them for the 99.9% of the book that hasn't been doctored.

 

...... and with the OP's example, a DD 1 with only a dot of color touch in the logo box...... maybe 99.9999999% unrestored ? Sounds like a damn nice book ..... I think I would've missed it as well. I have to admit that I sometimes bristle when I hear folks refer to sellers as "greedy", "dishonest", "unable to detect resto", etc...... when they bought the book, likely had a few weeks return policy, and ALSO missed the restoration theirselves...... but I suppose it's human nature to want to assign blame somewhere other than home. I'm with the others in respect to holding out for the CGC copy. If you buy a raw book and go ahead and submit it...... whose move is that ? That being said, I've missed resto several times and always bought the book back plus shipping. I really think the vast majority of we boardies would..... at least those of us who've stuck around long enough to make friends with each other. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

For a very, very long time, such minor touch-ups were considered the thing to do if you loved the book, and even though some people didn't like it, the percentage was fairly low and it was considered enough to discount it ten percent if somebody balked at it (but still wanted the book!)

 

That has changed with the "desecration" label to the point where it's out of balance, as a book with accidental markings (or the touched-up portion of the book torn away) have oddly come to be more greatly valued.

 

It is what it is and people must buy -- and sell -- accordingly (meaning you gotta offer to take it back if it is found on the book, and if you're the buyer you gotta take it into account if you feel you might ever need to resell).

 

In the cases of non-professional work it seems odd to hear people buy a book that was touched-up decades ago (possibly by the original owner who loved it) and complain that the original toucher-upper screwed them and caused them to lose money. Why put blame on the guy who touched it up, back when that was considered okay? That person didn't screw anyone but himself by marking the book and/or selling it too soon. The devaluation came years after he owned it when the value was diminished by other people, in what, in some cases, is an over-reaction? (Many uninformed collectors sell their books at a big discount because they touched up or repaired them as a kid, unaware that they can increase the value by having it removed)