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Batman 189???

Started by Readcomix,

44 posts in this topic

JTLarsen

JTLarsen

Posted
Posted
I'm that someone. Scarecrow is and has always been my favorite Batman villain since growing up with the animated series in the 90's. When I started to collect comics four years ago, Batman 189 was the first book I bought. I might be biased but I do not see how Scarecrow doesn't deserve to be a top list Batman villain and think he provides an interesting dichotomy to Batman and how they both weaponize fear for very different things.

 

Deserve's got nothing to do with it. When we're talking about top Batman villains, we're talking about breadth of popularity and public awareness. Joker, Catwoman, and the Riddler -- deservedly or not -- have greater public awareness than Scarecrow or R'as al Ghul do. Could that change? Maybe. Should it change? I certainly prefer both of them to the Riddler, but whether a character deserves top tier only gives us insights as to what might actually happen to public awareness, it doesn't supersede public awareness.

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Vexsus

Vexsus

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I'm not really sure what we are using to judge general public awareness of Batman villians. That is sort of a difficult thing to ascertain without public polling. I'm not arguing that their are villains more well known then Scarecrow. If I had to guess the most widely known would be Joker, Catwoman, Two-Face, and Penguin. I'd argue Riddler is on the second tier of awareness, along with Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, possibly Bane because of his movie appearances and Clayface, though Clay might be more obscure.. If Ra's is second tier awareness it would only be because of the Nolan films otherwise I think he'd be in obscurity with Killer Moth or Firefly, whereas I believe Scarecrow would have awareness outside of his appearance in that, thanks to things like the Superfriends cartoon. Ultimately what drives public awareness is their appearances in media outside of comics and Scarecrow has been featured much more recently though the Nolan movies and the third Arkham game then Riddler.

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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

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I'm not really sure what we are using to judge general public awareness of Batman villians. That is sort of a difficult thing to ascertain without public polling. I'm not arguing that their are villains more well known then Scarecrow. If I had to guess the most widely known would be Joker, Catwoman, Two-Face, and Penguin. I'd argue Riddler is on the second tier of awareness, along with Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, possibly Bane because of his movie appearances and Clayface, though Clay might be more obscure.. If Ra's is second tier awareness it would only be because of the Nolan films otherwise I think he'd be in obscurity with Killer Moth or Firefly, whereas I believe Scarecrow would have awareness outside of his appearance in that, thanks to things like the Superfriends cartoon. Ultimately what drives public awareness is their appearances in media outside of comics and Scarecrow has been featured much more recently though the Nolan movies and the third Arkham game then Riddler.

 

This.

 

I'd wager Scarecrow has much more public awareness than Ras al Ghul.

 

As I noted before, he was in Super Friends, he was in Batman The Animated Series, he was in Batman Begins, he was in the recent video games.

 

So he's far more "baked in" than Ras, who was unknown by non-comic geeks (and, frankly, most comics geeks) until Batman Begins.

 

For that matter, Penguin's likely slipped in public awareness and general Batman importance since his last movie appearance was nearly 25 years ago and Gotham isn't exactly a ratings blockbuster.

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Martin Sinescu

Martin Sinescu

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I feel like this thread is begging for a ranking of Batman villains hm I'll start it:

 

(1) Joker

 

Enough said , poll over

 

I just had the most ridiculously long-winded exposition in reply, but, really, if we're going to go there we should just start a new thread in CG.

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Gaard

Gaard

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re: these 1st SA appearances of villains

 

I'm not really a Batman kinda guy, but I am curious. Was any kind of explanation given for any of these characters keeping a low profile for a number of years? Like, "I had amnesia until a flaming guy dropped me in the ocean."

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JTLarsen

JTLarsen

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I'm not really sure what we are using to judge general public awareness of Batman villians. That is sort of a difficult thing to ascertain without public polling. I'm not arguing that their are villains more well known then Scarecrow. If I had to guess the most widely known would be Joker, Catwoman, Two-Face, and Penguin. I'd argue Riddler is on the second tier of awareness, along with Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, possibly Bane because of his movie appearances and Clayface, though Clay might be more obscure.. If Ra's is second tier awareness it would only be because of the Nolan films otherwise I think he'd be in obscurity with Killer Moth or Firefly, whereas I believe Scarecrow would have awareness outside of his appearance in that, thanks to things like the Superfriends cartoon. Ultimately what drives public awareness is their appearances in media outside of comics and Scarecrow has been featured much more recently though the Nolan movies and the third Arkham game then Riddler.

 

Riddler has been featured in other media for the last 50 years. Has been a recurring character in a weekly, primetime hit TV series twice. Fifty years ago--indelibly. And now, in Gotham. Riddler still has higher profile than Scarecrow.

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Cyclops

Cyclops

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I'm a BIG fan of this book and the character in general.

 

#189 is the first Silver Age appearance and his third overall appearance. His origin is retold and there is also a half-page ad for Detective Comics #359. Great book :thumbsup:

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Readcomix

Readcomix

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Ok, if it's

1) Joker and

2) Catwoman (and I agree)

3) everybody else

 

 

Don't get me wrong, not dissing any other faves, it gets tight here. And as this thread about Scarecrow pointed out, many perceptions of "big" villains depend upon your personal Golden Age of comic book discovery. E.g. - lots of 90's guys come to bat for Scarecrow, who got some multi-media prominence beginning then. As a bronze childhood guy, Ras comes to mind for me at #3 first, then I think of Poison Ivy and others I might be overlooking. Also, in terms of significance, because I grew up in the era of the TV show reruns, I am quick to consider Penguin, Riddler, and Mr Freeze for slot 3. And the I think "how the heck did I forget Two-Face???"

 

But this thread has given me the appreciation I sought for Scarecrow. Whoever pointed out that he and Batman weaponize fear to different ends, thank you. Such untapped potential for their relationship!

 

Similarly, I have long thought a good writer could tone down Riddler's Schtick and, between his intellect and wealth, position him as a cross between Luthor and Kingpin for Bats. I now think Scarecrow is also a villain with untapped (or at least undertapped) potential.

 

 

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Point Five

Point Five

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Some good comments here... (thumbs u

 

Similarly, I have long thought a good writer could tone down Riddler's Schtick and, between his intellect and wealth, position him as a cross between Luthor and Kingpin for Bats.

That sounds somewhat like Scott Snyder's take on Riddler in Batman New 52.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Vol-Zero-Comics-Paperback/dp/1401253350

 

 

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Vexsus

Vexsus

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Posted
Ok, if it's

1) Joker and

2) Catwoman (and I agree)

3) everybody else

 

 

Don't get me wrong, not dissing any other faves, it gets tight here. And as this thread about Scarecrow pointed out, many perceptions of "big" villains depend upon your personal Golden Age of comic book discovery. E.g. - lots of 90's guys come to bat for Scarecrow, who got some multi-media prominence beginning then. As a bronze childhood guy, Ras comes to mind for me at #3 first, then I think of Poison Ivy and others I might be overlooking. Also, in terms of significance, because I grew up in the era of the TV show reruns, I am quick to consider Penguin, Riddler, and Mr Freeze for slot 3. And the I think "how the heck did I forget Two-Face???"

 

But this thread has given me the appreciation I sought for Scarecrow. Whoever pointed out that he and Batman weaponize fear to different ends, thank you. Such untapped potential for their relationship!

 

Similarly, I have long thought a good writer could tone down Riddler's Schtick and, between his intellect and wealth, position him as a cross between Luthor and Kingpin for Bats. I now think Scarecrow is also a villain with untapped (or at least undertapped) potential.

 

 

I'm the big Scarecrow nerd that brought up their mirroring relationship. I of course agree their is some deeper storytelling that could be done there. I never want to see another story end with Scarecrow losing to his own fear toxin.

 

Scarecrow is too often taken as an easily defeated villain and his power over fear cast aside in favor of making Joker the "scariest"(a lot of villian potential is wasted on Joker focus really, not that I dislike the Joker) Really almost any Bats villain would be terrifying to meet, and so Scarecrow's particular power to his fear is the way he uses it to manipulate others. He should be ranked among Batman's most intelligent foes, he was a professor after all. I'd like to see a story where Scarecow plays a long game more subtly influencing Gotham. Some of the more interesting stories told with him are where he removes people's ability to fear, imagine if he was able to make Gotham complacent about the crime that occurs, just people recklessly going out into the night.

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Readcomix

Readcomix

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Ok guys, I'm in! I'm sold! And as a result, we have a mystery....

 

 

I'm in an LCS last week, and I notice a copy sitting in the showcase, vg/f at a glance. So I ask to flip through it, and about halfway through, along the right margin, the following is typed as if the comic has been inserted sideways into an old-school typewriter (that unmistakable font): "tin tin tin tin the only four words you need to know."

 

Anyone else ever see this in any books? Perhaps we have an oddball "pedigree" on our hands.

 

 

I left the book, but only because his price was high to begin with, even without the typing. But he's reasonable and will come down once the discovery sinks in, so I will go back. Might even do it as trade. but it's an intriguing defect.

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