Cool Lines Art Work Inquiry 1 1

[Bird]

other dealers trade with them as well. I was after a wonderful Winsor McCay from Scott Eder but when I went to get it Scott had traded it to Rich D. I inquired of Rich D and it had increased in value 160% ($%k to $*K I believe it was).

 

I think they do just fine.

[Terry E.]

 

 

I merely stated the fact that, to be able to buy from the Donnelly's, you'd have to be "very well off" financially. That isn't saying they can't price how they want, nor that people are obligated to buy. It's merely a statement of observational fact.

 

 

but not for everything they hold.

 

Fact, I bought a very nice Bronze Flash page from them for around $1,100 early this year.

 

On Heritage recently another Bronze Flash page went for $1,300+.

 

I have had others knock back $1,250 for similar pages.

 

So if you want it and it is a priority buy it. I don't think those prices put me in millionaire status, and I could buy 100s of Flash pages for a lot less off Ebay, but as until that Heritage page came through only three Flash Bronze CI pages had turned up and none with Rogues, Flash in costume etc., it made sense.

 

Now I understand that other stuff may not go this way, but generalising may rule out some very good stuff.

 

No one is making anyone pay for this stuff, and as always buyer beware.

 

They are one of 4 dealers I have dealt with this year and their deal was the smoothest, because they actually had it. Two of the others had the "sorry but that is gone .. how about this.. after I had paid" . They also worked out in the end.

[Meeley Man]

Now I understand that other stuff may not go this way, but generalising may rule out some very good stuff.

 

No one is making anyone pay for this stuff, and as always buyer beware.

 

It's not "generalizing on prices" that costs them the business and respect of so many in this hobby.

[Bronty]

James, be that as it may being somewhat in competition with them, talking them down doesn't make you look good either - just my .02.

 

You may disagree but I'm of the opinion dealers and reps shouldn't criticize each other

[SquareChaos]

James, be that as it may being somewhat in competition with them, talking them down doesn't make you look good either - just my .02.

 

You may disagree but I'm of the opinion dealers and reps shouldn't criticize each other

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I've always felt that sort of behavior may be bad for the overall health and reputation of a profession... assuming said members are only speaking out about habits that actually are bad or unethical and not just piling on in the court of public opinion.

 

A group should be concerned about their perception overall, and do what they need to do to uphold it. If every member forms up into a wall of silence and refuses to call a spade a spade then that doesn't help anyone.

 

Of course, where possible, there is something to be said for handling such things internally.

[Meeley Man]

James, be that as it may being somewhat in competition with them, talking them down doesn't make you look good either - just my .02.

 

You may disagree but I'm of the opinion dealers and reps shouldn't criticize each other

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I've always felt that sort of behavior may be bad for the overall health and reputation of a profession... assuming said members are only speaking out about habits that actually are bad or unethical and not just piling on in the court of public opinion.

 

A group should be concerned about their perception overall, and do what they need to do to uphold it. If every member forms up into a wall of silence and refuses to call a spade a spade then that doesn't help anyone.

 

Couldn't have put it any better myself, Thanks.

[Meeley Man]

James, be that as it may being somewhat in competition with them, talking them down doesn't make you look good either - just my .02.

 

You may disagree but I'm of the opinion dealers and reps shouldn't criticize each other

 

I do disagree. Strongly.

 

I have every right to speak up about dealers (or reps, or even artists) who are engaging in bad business tactics. Perhaps even moreso than you "mere collectors" do, precisely BECAUSE I am "somewhat in competition with them." What they do reflects not just on them, but the hobby as a whole. When they do things that are unethical (and perhaps even illegal), it damages all of us who work this side of the street.

 

Maybe that doesn't matter to you (since you qualified your statement with "be that as it may," signifying you know I'm right, but you want to sideline that inconvenient fact). Maybe it might not matter to most collectors, or even most other dealers and reps. But it matters to ME. And if you, or anyone else, want to judge my BUSINESS on my being outspoken on something that dirties and lessens this hobby, rather than on the service and product I provide (especially seeing as you and any of the others here seemingly looking to "chastise" me have never bought from me before), then that's up to you. It's YOUR loss, not mine! I'll stand up for what's right. EVERY time.

[Bronty]

No. If this was some big secret that YOU were bringing to light then a thousand times yes I would thank you for bringing it to light. But you're just piling on, whether out of jealousy or to make try to yourself look good or what I don't know, but it is NOT a case of you altruistically holding another dealer to a higher standard. This is not not NOT something you brought to light first and this conversation gets to the same place without your input... which is why , to me, it doesn't reflect that well on you . That's my disagree if you want.... and nobody's perfect. I know I've posted stuff I would consider a mistake at times

[Meeley Man]

No.

 

Yes.

 

But you're just piling on, whether out of jealousy or to make try to yourself look good or what I don't know, but it is NOT a case of you altruistically holding another dealer to a higher standard.

 

You know nothing about me. Don't presume to speak like you do. And funny, I don't see you calling out others for "dogpiling." But I won't speculate on YOUR motives for that.

 

This is not not NOT something you brought to light first and this conversation gets to the same place without your input...

 

If it "gets to the same place," that means the problem has not been addressed. And I don't need your "blessing" to give my input. If you don't like it, don't read it.

 

which is why , to me, it doesn't reflect that well on you.

 

I wonder if you'd feel that way, if I had art you wanted to buy....

 

That's my disagree if you want....

 

Oh, I do. And nothing you said had changed that. Or the fact I never asked for your

 

and nobody's perfect.

 

Is that the excuse you want to give the Donnelly's for their unethical business practices?

 

I know I've posted stuff I would consider a mistake at times

 

If I need your "help," I'll ask for it.

[Bronty]

You're right; you didn't ask for my help and my input any more than I asked for yours. The reason I spoke up and called you out on it is because it seems like every time their name comes up you bag on them. It's been many many times now. I don't see any other dealers or reps doing that despite them no doubt knowing all this and more.

 

I'm probably offside a little on telling you what to say or not say. But I don't believe you frankly when you say you bag on them for the greater good. It seems more personal.

 

 

[thethedew]

Boy, everybody's grumpy tonight.

 

[SquareChaos]

Boy, everybody's grumpy tonight.

 

 

It does seem like there has been a lot of arguing in the last few days.

[vodou]

New Year's hangovers?

[Bronty]

Group hug.

[Filter81]

As far as whether or not it's ok for one dealer to criticize another, I would argue that if a dealer's actions rise to the level of fraud or criminal misconduct i.e. coollines, Danny Dupcak, etc other dealers should (and even maybe have an obligation to) share this information with others.

 

The other day I asked Chris to post something for me about a negative experience I had with Coollines (After going more than 3 months without being able to get any response whatsoever from Coollines via E-mail, website, or phone call I asked Chris to post about it since Chris is well known in the OA community and I am not as well known yet. And yes, I had heard negative things about Coollines prior to making the purchase and as a result maybe I deserve what I got. But if I'd known at that time that Coollines had any history of being intentionally dishonest with regards to what was being sold, I would never have spent any money with that company.)

 

I keep learning more and more how different OA is from comics. But in comics if a dealer develops a reputation for scamming people, the community typically looks out for each other. As an example, when Dupcak was selling restored comic books as unrestored I'm glad there were dealers / CGC / board members etc making sure other people (like myself who was new to the hobby at the time) were made aware as quickly as possible when they were coming into the hobby. It was both the right thing to do, and it was good for the hobby because it limited how many people Dupcak was able to chase out of the hobby as a result of bad experiences they may have had. In my opinion it's the same thing when Coollines sells fakes / recreations as originals, or when Coollines says something is done by one artist when it was actually done by someone else (like the MCP cover by Purcell they have listed on eBay as being done by Romita Sr, or the NM cover they sold me as a Liefeld when it was really a fake done by unknown)

 

I know I'm posting about two threads in one post, so just for the record, if Coollines wants to price their pieces at multiples of FMV, more power to them, it's their art to price however they want. But as soon as any dealer starts substituting recreations for originals or restored books as unrestored (especially when that behavior turns into a pattern) they should be called out on it if for no other reason than to make others aware so they can make more informed decisions.

 

(And I'm not discounting anyone who has had a good experience with Coollines. Plenty of people had positive experiences with Dupcak, Ewert, etc. But it doesn't make up for all the people they ripped off either)

 

My anyway... (end rant)

 

 

 

 

[Bronty]

Hi Adam

 

Sorry to hear about that.

 

Fwiw, I think the discussion is super important, yes... I'm drawing a distinction there but don't want to revisit the discussion. Bottom line - sorry to hear about this and I hope you get your money back soon!

[Filter81]

Thanks! Unfortunately the fact that Steve has never once even to this day responded to a single E-mail, phone call, or voice mail of mine from the minute he was made aware of this situation (and the fact that this has apparently been done before, and is still being attempted with items currently on eBay, on their website, and on another consignment site) has made it pretty clear that I won't be getting any money back if Steve has anything to say about it.. For the record, I wasn't trying to direct my post at you or any one person. Just sharing my experience and adding my

[Terry Doyle]

 

Unfortunately the fact that Steve has never once even to this day responded to a single E-mail, phone call, or voice mail of mine from the minute he was made aware of this situation (and the fact that this has apparently been done before, and is still being attempted with items currently on eBay, on their website, and on another consignment site) has made it pretty clear that I won't be getting any money back if Steve has anything to say about it.

 

 

So what's the way forward for you now?

[thethedew]

So what's the way forward for you now?

 

Get a lawyer to draft a demand letter for him. Should be less expensive than starting off with full-blown legal proceedings.

Edited January 5, 2017 by thethedew

[Superhero]

EVERYONE'S input is appreciated on threads like these...collector's and dealers alike. We are talking about thousands of dollars in many cases for these pieces and if we can save someone or help someone in our beloved hobby we should ALL do that.

 

When I first started collecting years ago, I was warned by Chris to stay away from the Donnelys. They operated under several eBay IDs and there have been many threads about them scamming people over the years. Chris was right and I have never done a deal with them and never will. If it were one story or five even maybe its reasonable mistake or buyer's remorse. In this case, it is many, many documented cases of these men doing the same illegal, unethical conduct over and over. These men are crooks, con-men, swindlers. Even if I was not swindled, I will not support them. I will condemn them and warn others to stay away.

 

It is through threads like this that we protect each other so I thank everyone who has participated in threads like this over the years and warned newbies like I was. Even experienced collectors need these discussions as new seller's enter the hobby all the time and we all need help.

 

So, thank you and keep up the good work!