Are Comic Book conventions really Comic Book conventions? 1 1

[Red84]

12 minutes ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

 A convention that focuses only on comics and other collectibles priced $50+ (right up your alley) is coming to town, and their only stipulation is that they politely ask that you leave the cosplay at home.

From what has been described, you didn't politely ask that people leave the cosplay at home.  You actually did the opposite, you banned cosplay.

[lizards2]

50 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

2 hours ago, nearmint said:

Terry's show in Yorba Linda is all comics, and seems well attended.  The San Diego Comic Fest also seems to be purely about funny books, but I haven't attended that one.

Terry's show can't be beat as far as comics are concerned, a real collectors show.

I used to go to SDCC every year, now it's just too crazy, too crowded, and too much of a hassle.

Can I stay with you for the next one? 

[oakman29]

11 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

Can I stay with you for the next one? 

Sheit yeah!   A lizard and an exterminator, perfect.

Seriously we would have a great time

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

42 minutes ago, Red84 said:

I'm pretty sure that if you were bidding on a Tec 27 that heritage could care less if you were dressed as Batman while doing it.

And if I was that hypothetical person you mentioned who was into cosplay and comics and told I would not be allowed to dress up in order to attend I would stay home and spend my money elsewhere.  Like I said previously; antagonizing a specific group of people for no reason is just silly.  It's almost like people are annoyed that comic book characters have become mainstream.  People in costumes buy books too.

Right, because in a small room that barely fit 24 dealer booths, dozens if not hundreds of extra bodies walking around was a problem we would've had to address one way or another...the simplest way was to sort out out the casual fan.  A simple dress code and higher than usual gate was the best way to do it.       

Next time you are dressed up at a major con, feel free to occupy some valuable real estate with your cosplay friends in front of a dealer's booth who paid good money to be there.  Be sure to give him attitude when he politely asks you to relocate so paying customers can actually get to him.  

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

Terry's show can't be beat as far as comics are concerned, a real collectors show.

I used to go to SDCC every year, now it's just too crazy, too crowded, and too much of a hassle.

Terry's show is too crowded now too from what I hear.

And he won't go to a 2 day show.

There are other comic heavy shows. Baltimore and Charlotte are much larger versions of Terry's show. Others can probably list comparable shows as well.

[Red84]

Just now, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

Right, because in a small room that barely fit 24 dealer booths, dozens if not hundreds of extra bodies walking around was a problem we would've had to address one way or another...the simplest way was to sort out out the casual fan.  A simple dress code and higher than usual gate was the best way to do it.       

Next time you are dressed up at a major con, feel free to occupy some valuable real estate with your cosplay friends in front of a dealer's booth who paid good money to be there.  Be sure to give him attitude when he politely asks you to relocate so paying customers can actually get to him.  

I don't cosplay, but I appreciate your assumption.  Maybe when organizing your next Con don't tell a large percentage that they're not welcome.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

45 minutes ago, Red84 said:

From what has been described, you didn't politely ask that people leave the cosplay at home.  You actually did the opposite, you banned cosplay.

It was quite polite, up until the last week.  And we maintained our composure in the face of some nasty commentary and in many cases, outright lies.

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

1 minute ago, Red84 said:

I don't cosplay, but I appreciate your assumption.  Maybe when organizing your next Con don't tell a large percentage that they're not welcome.

A large percentage of what?  Casual Fans?  

[Artboy99]

2 minutes ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

It was quite polite, up until the last week.  And we maintained our composure in the face of some nasty commentary and in many cases, outright lies.

 

I don't see the problem at all.

If Cosplayers are not welcome then cosplayers can go do something else.

 

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, Red84 said:

Restricting the type of people who can go makes zero sense.

Nobody was restricting the type of people.

1 hour ago, Red84 said:

5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Obviously, me being the person I am I asked if the Cosplayer's started their own convention and said there were no vendor's allowed would that be OK? I had a feeling no vendors would protest that idea. - Nobody replied. I asked it at least 3 times. Nobody replied.

That is not an analogous example.  Based on how you have described it, the uproar was about restricting how people could dress, not about restricting merchandise for sale.  The analogous situation would be a convention where you were not allowed in if you were not in cosplay.  That is just as destructive as the proposed alternative.

So if someone started a convention and said only cosplay is allowed that wouldn't be OK?

I think your use of the words 'antagonizing' and 'destructive' are excessive.

Not everyone always needs to be included in everything. If I have a target market that doesn't include kids and I choose to market strictly to adults does that make me a puppy kicker?

Nope.

It's this sense of entitlement and windmill tilting outrage that was fueling all the cosplayers as well.

And I love cosplay. As I said, my wife used to dress up. But there are times when I'd prefer it weren't there. And that is not discriminatory. It's just practicality.

[Red84]

1 minute ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

It was quite polite, up until the last week.  And we maintained our composure in the face of some nasty commentary and in many cases, outright lies.

 

It has been described on here as you telling people they would be denied admission if they were cosplaying.  That is different from asking people not to wear huge outfits.  A request and a demand are mutually exclusive.  The irony is I've never been to a small show that had a problem with professional cosplayers taking up all of the space. Especially at a show that had no entertainment element, i.e. celebrities.  Seems like you started a problem over an issue that you weren't going to have to deal with anyway.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Just now, Artboy99 said:

I don't see the problem at all.

If Cosplayers are not welcome then cosplayers can go do something else.

 

Not according to them.  In fact, we were accused of being racist toward cosplayers.  If you can imagine such a thing.  Also, and I just learned this when reading some of the commentary..the word "Con" is derived from Cosplay.  Yes, someone actually wrote that, and worse, believed it.  Yeah, I bet that guy spends heavily on vintage material at every show.

[Artboy99]

1 minute ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

Not according to them.  In fact, we were accused of being racist toward cosplayers.  If you can imagine such a thing.  Also, and I just learned this when reading some of the commentary..the word "Con" is derived from Cosplay.  Yes, someone actually wrote that, and worse, believed it.  Yeah, I bet that guy spends heavily on vintage material at every show.

If someone organized some show that did not allow comic book collectors in I wouldn't go, and wouldn't bother to go to any future shows of that type and what I wouldn't do is go whine publicly about not being allowed in.

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

2 minutes ago, Red84 said:

It has been described on here as you telling people they would be denied admission if they were cosplaying.  That is different from asking people not to wear huge outfits.  A request and a demand are mutually exclusive.  The irony is I've never been to a small show that had a problem with professional cosplayers taking up all of the space. Especially at a show that had no entertainment element, i.e. celebrities.  Seems like you started a problem over an issue that you weren't going to have to deal with anyway.

There was no demand.  It wasn't until we had threats by people to protest our policy and disrupt our event, which in turn, being at a public establishment, would've caused a disruption for others as well that we had to draw a line.  We also made certain that not a single one of our ticket holders had an issue with the policy, and lo and behold, not a single one did.  No refunds were requested, because everyone knew what the event was about, except, of course, those that had no intention of attending anyway but wanted to climb up on their cross anyway.   What was funny was that we had collectors who cosplayed who were perfectly fine with the policy...they understood the distinction that many people seemingly could, or would, not.

[Red84]

6 minutes ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

Not according to them.  In fact, we were accused of being racist toward cosplayers.  If you can imagine such a thing.  Also, and I just learned this when reading some of the commentary..the word "Con" is derived from Cosplay.  Yes, someone actually wrote that, and worse, believed it.  Yeah, I bet that guy spends heavily on vintage material at every show.

Yes, that would be overdramatic on their part.  I just don't understand why you have such a problem with people in costume walking around (and buying books).  The vast majority of cosplayers dress up and then shop.  

[oakman29]

19 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

Sheit yeah!   A lizard and an exterminator, perfect.

Seriously we would have a great time

Then you would be on the floor thinking Dave hasn't even shown a quarter of his collection, damn I died and went to comic book heaven.

[Red84]

6 minutes ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

There was no demand.  It wasn't until we had threats by people to protest our policy and disrupt our event, which in turn, being at a public establishment, would've caused a disruption for others as well that we had to draw a line.  We also made certain that not a single one of our ticket holders had an issue with the policy, and lo and behold, not a single one did.  No refunds were requested, because everyone knew what the event was about, except, of course, those that had no intention of attending anyway but wanted to climb up on their cross anyway.   What was funny was that we had collectors who cosplayed who were perfectly fine with the policy...they understood the distinction that many people seemingly could, or would, not.

So it sounds like none of the people you didn't want to come were going to show up (as evidenced by you having no refund requests) and the people you spoke to at the show who would have cosplayed are the exact cosplayers that you would have been fine with having attend in the first place.  Sounds like you created a problem that didn't exist.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Red84
clarity

[oakman29]

I love cosplay, as long as they're nearly naked.

[Red84]

12 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Nobody was restricting the type of people.

So if someone started a convention and said only cosplay is allowed that wouldn't be OK?

I think your use of the words 'antagonizing' and 'destructive' are excessive.

Not everyone always needs to be included in everything. If I have a target market that doesn't include kids and I choose to market strictly to adults does that make me a puppy kicker?

Nope.

It's this sense of entitlement and windmill tilting outrage that was fueling all the cosplayers as well.

And I love cosplay. As I said, my wife used to dress up. But there are times when I'd prefer it weren't there. And that is not discriminatory. It's just practicality.

I think my word choice was appropriate.  Telling a group of people that their type of fandom is not welcome is antagonizing.

Dividing the comic enthusiast community into those who cosplay and those who don't is destructive to the health of the community.

The cosplayers were rightfully upset because by telling them they were not welcome they were effectively being told they were lesser fans.

No puppy kicking accusations here.  If someone tells another they are not welcome, that person is likely going to be upset.  Basic cause and effect.

[Artboy99]

2 minutes ago, Red84 said:

So it sounds like none of the people you didn't want to come showed up (as evidenced by you having no refund requests) and the people you spoke to at the show who would have cosplayed are the exact cosplayers that you would have been fine with having attend in the first place.  Sounds like you created a problem that didn't exist.

If I make some event, and I say "make sure you wear red or you do not get in" why would someone show up in blue? Big waste of time. Further why bother to complain on a public forum about your right to wear a different color. Go wear your color / costume somewhere else and let the red wearers have their fun.

 

3 minutes ago, Red84 said:

I think my word choice was appropriate.  Telling a group of people that their type of fandom is not welcome is antagonizing.

Dividing the comic enthusiast community into those who cosplay and those who don't is destructive to the health of the community.

The cosplayers were rightfully upset because by telling them they were not welcome they were effectively being told they were lesser fans.

No puppy kicking accusations here.  If someone tells another they are not welcome, that person is likely going to be upset.  Basic cause and effect.

why do cosplayers care?

Go create their own event, and go cosplay to their hearts content. So you cant wear your costume on a Saturday, who cares?