Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Ken Aldred]

Marvel - Miracleman

[ComicConnoisseur]

2 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Marvel - Miracleman

A good one.  Still waiting on Marvel to do something with this great character. So far just a few reprints.

Edited April 30, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[drotto]

As mentioned a few pages back, Disney is very concerned with, and very good at creating entertainment that not only spans generations, but appeals to people in basically all stages of life.  They are absolute experts on capturing kids very young, and having a systematic way of progressing those people not only through age groups, but also various forms of media. Marvel as a subsidiary should have access or at least be able to learn from Disney how they have managed to do this.  I take a look at friends and family, and it amazes me that Disney makes most little girls want to be a princess, and then manages to crate a life long love in those girls for most things Disney. The appeal is truly generational, to the point that going to Disney movies, or Disney World is basically a right of passage in the US. Plus, they do it not only with new characters, but in a fashion that keeps the old characters both popular and somewhat relevant.

I am not sure how this can be adopted to a more male comic book market, but it seems to me the knowledge is already in house.  I do not except printed comics to be the backbone of this model, just as books are not the driving force for Disney's other characters.  They can however be kept relevant, as a breeding ground for ideas, and there should be opportunity to grow the market.  But just as other industries are being forced to change in the digital world, so must Marvel.

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, drotto said:

As mentioned a few pages back, Disney is very concerned with, and very good at creating entertainment that not only spans generations, but appeals to people in basically all stages of life.  They are absolute experts on capturing kids very young, and having a systematic way of progressing those people not only through age groups, but also various forms of media. Marvel as a subsidiary should have access or at least be able to learn from Disney how they have managed to do this.  I take a look at friends and family, and it amazes me that Disney makes most little girls want to be a princess, and then manages to crate a life long love in those girls for most things Disney. The appeal is truly generational, to the point that going to Disney movies, or Disney World is basically a right of passage in the US. Plus, they do it not only with new characters, but in a fashion that keeps the old characters both popular and somewhat relevant.

I am not sure how this can be adopted to a more male comic book market, but it seems to me the knowledge is already in house.  I do not except printed comics to be the backbone of this model, just as books are not the driving force for Disney's other characters.  They can however be kept relevant, as a breeding ground for ideas, and there should be opportunity to grow the market.  But just as other industries are being forced to change in the digital world, so must Marvel.

I think kids today DO know these characters, just not through comics. 

Disney will still capture kids' imagination, they just do it through the means that kids discover things and that ISN'T generally comic books. 

[Mercury Man]

1 hour ago, drotto said:

As mentioned a few pages back, Disney is very concerned with, and very good at creating entertainment that not only spans generations, but appeals to people in basically all stages of life.  They are absolute experts on capturing kids very young, and having a systematic way of progressing those people not only through age groups, but also various forms of media. Marvel as a subsidiary should have access or at least be able to learn from Disney how they have managed to do this.  I take a look at friends and family, and it amazes me that Disney makes most little girls want to be a princess, and then manages to crate a life long love in those girls for most things Disney. The appeal is truly generational, to the point that going to Disney movies, or Disney World is basically a right of passage in the US. Plus, they do it not only with new characters, but in a fashion that keeps the old characters both popular and somewhat relevant.

I am not sure how this can be adopted to a more male comic book market, but it seems to me the knowledge is already in house.  I do not except printed comics to be the backbone of this model, just as books are not the driving force for Disney's other characters.  They can however be kept relevant, as a breeding ground for ideas, and there should be opportunity to grow the market.  But just as other industries are being forced to change in the digital world, so must Marvel.

Disney also understands the value of Mickey Mouse-Minnie Mouse- Goofy-Donald Duck-Pluto.  They are just as valuable to them today as they were in 1930's/40's.    Marvel is not doing that with their mainstays (at least on the print side).   That fact that there is no Fantastic Four comic being printed will always be a head scratcher. 

[kav]

20 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

Disney also understands the value of Mickey Mouse-Minnie Mouse- Goofy-Donald Duck-Pluto.  They are just as valuable to them today as they were in 1930's/40's.    Marvel is not doing that with their mainstays (at least on the print side).   That fact that there is no Fantastic Four comic being printed will always be a head scratcher. 

Yep.  It always surprises me when a teenager wants me to draw them Mickey Mouse.  I'm like really you still like Mickey Mouse?  YES.  Disney needs to helps its poor stepchild Marvel.

Edited April 30, 2017 by kav
tipo

[hippiecop]

      About 10 or 12 times a year, there is a topic going on the boards that I can't wait to turn on my laptop for.  This is one of those topics.  

     And by the way, my compliments to the mostly civil way that disagreements are being handled.  Very few snide comments being thrown in.  It makes reading all these pages very enjoyable...   

[rjrjr]

3 hours ago, drotto said:

As mentioned a few pages back, Disney is very concerned with, and very good at creating entertainment that not only spans generations, but appeals to people in basically all stages of life.  They are absolute experts on capturing kids very young, and having a systematic way of progressing those people not only through age groups, but also various forms of media. Marvel as a subsidiary should have access or at least be able to learn from Disney how they have managed to do this.  I take a look at friends and family, and it amazes me that Disney makes most little girls want to be a princess, and then manages to crate a life long love in those girls for most things Disney. The appeal is truly generational, to the point that going to Disney movies, or Disney World is basically a right of passage in the US. Plus, they do it not only with new characters, but in a fashion that keeps the old characters both popular and somewhat relevant.

I am not sure how this can be adopted to a more male comic book market, but it seems to me the knowledge is already in house.  I do not except printed comics to be the backbone of this model, just as books are not the driving force for Disney's other characters.  They can however be kept relevant, as a breeding ground for ideas, and there should be opportunity to grow the market.  But just as other industries are being forced to change in the digital world, so must Marvel.

I think this article is very relevant to this topic:

https://icv2.com/articles/columns/view/37290/does-disney-see-marvel-brand-not-publisher

It is very probable that Disney doesn't want Marvel to be entertainment for a person from cradle to grave.  Rather, they look at Marvel as a piece of the pie, which is why an all-age Star Wars line will be published by IDW and why their own Disney characters are also published by IDW and not Marvel.  If I recall, another publisher does Disney movie books too.  For them, Marvel is teenage boys and up IMHO.

I'll bet if this Star Wars line succeeds, we'll see more licensing of the Marvel characters to other publishers for all-age books.

Edited April 30, 2017 by rjrjr

[01TheDude]

It could just be the same result seen in print media in general-- papers losing circulation and moving toward a digital format. Print media as we knew it is a dying breed. As much as one might say this happened to vinyl recordings after CDs became the preferred method of mass consumption -- they are seeing a minor re-introduction to the market albeit no where near the same market share. Based on that-- perhaps this is the natural order of how things will go with comics-- moving toward digital releases with minor amounts of print media produced (other than perhaps TPBs). It seems like most comics are made using computers these days anyway... so it literally starts out digital. Someone mentioned the growth of the digital purchases-- perhaps the market has already shifted.

The one problem with this- and it sort of relates in a way to pornography-- is that there are ways to view this material without paying for it. So the costs associated with producing have been reigned in significantly. Lesser salaries result in less interesting and stellar work being produced. Not sure how they get around that issue, or if it is even possible.

[rjrjr]

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37169/marvel-goes-back-free-digital-copies

Old news, but is anyone surprised?

[World Devourer]

12 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

One thing I like about DC that Marvel doesn't seem to have is Vertigo. Vertigo since its inception has to put out some of the best written comic book ever made.

Lucifer. Still the best series to date.

[SteppinRazor]

7 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

It could just be the same result seen in print media in general-- papers losing circulation and moving toward a digital format. Print media as we knew it is a dying breed. As much as one might say this happened to vinyl recordings after CDs became the preferred method of mass consumption -- they are seeing a minor re-introduction to the market albeit no where near the same market share. Based on that-- perhaps this is the natural order of how things will go with comics-- moving toward digital releases with minor amounts of print media produced (other than perhaps TPBs). It seems like most comics are made using computers these days anyway... so it literally starts out digital. Someone mentioned the growth of the digital purchases-- perhaps the market has already shifted.

The one problem with this- and it sort of relates in a way to pornography-- is that there are ways to view this material without paying for it. So the costs associated with producing have been reigned in significantly. Lesser salaries result in less interesting and stellar work being produced. Not sure how they get around that issue, or if it is even possible.

I went with music in my analogy, but yeah, based on that example it isn't possible.  Music has gotten both less lucrative and worse in quality (as a whole, not that there isn't talent now).  The vast majority of musicians earn a decent or worse income.  The rare big smashes are about the same percentage.

 

The Disney stuff is interesting.  I think they bought Marvel for the character rights, not to publish.  And Disney has had big hits since their classics with diversification like Mulan for example.  Reboots are undoubtedly going to occur, I wonder if they'll continue to publish electronically just to float and familiarize people with new versions of marvel superheroes.

Edited May 1, 2017 by SteppinRazor

[World Devourer]

8 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

I think they bought Marvel for the character rights, not to publish. 

There you go. You hit the nail on the head.

Quote

 

And Disney has had big hits since their classics with diversification like Mulan for example.  Reboots are undoubtedly going to occur, I wonder if they'll continue to publish electronically just to float and familiarize people with new versions of marvel superheroes.

Expect in the future to see many of the Marvel heroes to go the way of their Disney cousins - appearances on merchandise and in theme parks but very few (if any) new adventures.  Many forgettable characters like Blue Marvel will simply disappear. The big guns - Captain America, Hulk, Spider-Man, Thor etc. - will have a longer half-life (which is sadly what it will become: science aside, half a life).

Edited May 1, 2017 by World Devourer

[John R]

20 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

What is odd about that is Marvel has done absolutely nothing with those Malibu Ultraverse characters for 20 years? So why buy them?

There was some value in the line, as they even had a animated series during the 1990s.

 

Same with the Crossgen characters they bought in 2004 - not much has been done with them since buying their characters.

[World Devourer]

5 minutes ago, John R said:

Same with the Crossgen characters they bought in 2004 - not much has been done with them since buying their characters.

Common practice in business. Buy out the emerging competition and shelve their product.

[WoWitHurts]

20 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

What is odd about that is Marvel has done absolutely nothing with those Malibu Ultraverse characters for 20 years? So why buy them?

There was some value in the line, as they even had a animated series during the 1990s.

 

They bought Malibu for the in house coloring studio.  It was the first time in a great while that they found themselves behind the other companies. Though ultimately it didn't work because all they bought were aging Apple Quadra machines.  The colorists went elsewhere and they went back to using freelance colorists. 

[Ken Aldred]

2 hours ago, John R said:

Same with the Crossgen characters they bought in 2004 - not much has been done with them since buying their characters.

I didn't even notice that Marvel had bought Crossgen out.

[John R]

3 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

I didn't even notice that Marvel had bought Crossgen out.

Actually, it was Disney, several years before owning Marvel, that bought Crossgen out.

[PEP]

On April 15, 2017 at 1:55 AM, Chuck Gower said:

What statement are they making?

That superheroes can be more than just white males? They've been making that statement since the 60's. 

Seems to me it's the fans who are the Social Justice Wimps crying about how their precious men in tights aren't represented to their specifications. 

Its Social Justice they're crying for... that makes THEM the SJW's. "We want what's fair!" Grow up. They're cartoon characters.

And Marvel has hardly lost 'half' their 'clientele' - they're down 2% in market share from last year and 7% in unit share from last year - which is pretty much in line with the industry as a whole right now. The COMICS industry.

In OTHER media, owned by Marvel, where they've 'diversified', the MOVIES and TV, with their BLACK Nick Fury (a huge central part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe) and WHITE FEMALE Ancient One and BLACK Heimdall and WHITE Iron Fist and BLACK Night Nurse... they've had monsterous success that is unparalleled with any sequelled film universe EVER in the history of movies. 

So, no. They haven't lost a damn thing. 

That little, tiny, niche publishing part of the Marvel Empire, which is down 5%, isn't going to make or break the company. They're making plenty of money. 

You do a pretty good job of distracting from the original theme of this thread.  Especially when Marvel is stating that diversity was their intent and it's affecting their bottom line.  

Marvel was poo poo before and they've sunk even lower now thinking they could jump on the social justice wimp bandwagon.

[Bird]

DC bought Wildstorm for Jim Lee as well, right?