wombat Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 At the end of the day Starlin has absolutely nothing to lose. He wasn't even charging for sigs until he was convinced to. CGC has potentially more to lose. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. From a business perspective I can't see how anyone can argue they handled this correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Prime 0 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, wombat said: At the end of the day Starlin has absolutely nothing to lose. He wasn't even charging for sigs until he was convinced to. CGC has potentially more to lose. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. From a business perspective I can't see how anyone can argue they handled this correctly. well if you read a cgc rep did go over to do damage control.......but by that point he was unwilling to listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dark Prime 0 said: well if you read a cgc rep did go over to do damage control.......but by that point he was unwilling to listen That's not how I interpreted what happened. Trying to convince Starlin he was wrong for refusing to sign more books without any offer of help in solving his problem doesn't seem like damage control to me. But of course we are only reading one side of the story. "Later this same lady came by my table to try to convince me I was being unreasonable. I wasn’t convinced by her case and said I would no longer cooperate or deal with CGC. At no time did she offer to help find this fan." Edited May 15, 2017 by wombat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Prime 0 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, wombat said: That's not how I interpreted what happened. Trying to convince Starlin he was wrong for refusing to sign more books without any offer of help in solving his problem doesn't seem like damage control to me. But of course we are only reading one side of the story. "Later this same lady came by my table to try to convince me I was being unreasonable. I wasn’t convinced by her case and said I would no longer cooperate or deal with CGC. At no time did she offer to help find this fan." agree to disagree, i see him as being unreasonable over prob $20 and throwing a hissy fit bc he didn't get what he wanted instead of takeing a lesson from it as it also hurt him as well.............there are people who won't use cbcs for their SS and so it's either raw or nothing. yes cgc has more to lose them him but both lost something none the less cgc isn't off the hook either so i'm not saying they have no fault in this either as again kav gave a good way to handle it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 What does Starlin have to lose? And I wasn't even arguing whether he was being unreasonable or not. I think it is completely irrelevant from a CGC business perspective and PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Prime 0 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 um i stated what he loses, money from the cgc ss crowd since he's going to start charging for SS sigs..............he never mentioned not allowing cbcs to not wittness his sigs but not all collectors want raw or want to use cbcs i won't do raw and personaly i have no problem useing cbcs but not all collectors are like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Seems extremely minimal. But I guess that is some potential lost money. Perhaps they are both getting what they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Prime 0 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 no, your right. on cgc's side it could be/is a larger loss, it's really the amt of lost money is the issue instead of one not haveing anything to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteppinRazor Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dark Prime 0 said: and you know this how......the problem is when cgc goes to cons they do in fact take in i'd say at min 1k books, at philly last yr wasn't it like 2-3k books or more? also your assuming that the book/s signed didn't have meny other copies signed that day so to know excatly who to contact could be a problem as well The amount of books matters for that day up to that time. I doubt or would hope they don't leave books at the convention hall all three days. Shouldn't be too difficult to look through the forms from that day up to that point to find a particular combination of books. I could be wrong though. The biggest assumption I made is Starling having the identity of the books. In whatever case, the best thing to do IMO, is offer whatever assistance you can within the confines of internal and legal obligations. A polite explanation as to what the rules you have are, and why you can't break them, with an offer to do what you can is how that situation could be handled. Assuming (oops I did it again ) he's not totally unreasonable, he should understand why they can't go around divulging customer contact information, and what CGC's limited role is in the whole process - ie what they have control over and what they don't. An I'll help within these parameters but can't promise anything would have gone a long way. Edited May 15, 2017 by SteppinRazor Pirate and fullerjason 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullerjason Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Chuck Gower said: Publishers sell them to Diamond for the same price as the regular issue, Diamond sells them to retailers at the same price as the regular issue (as long as you meet the quota) and then it's retailers who sell it for 'insane amounts' when, on the very miniscule chance they warrant it, to the customer. 99% of variants ain't worth squat and end up in discount boxes. I agree that most variants are not worth squat but the artist/writer may see some selling signed and graded initially for a large sum of money and think that value was from their signature alone. Maybe some creators see some variants signed and graded going for $500 or $750 (like an Adam Hughes LoSH variant or Harley Quinn 1 variant) CGC SS 9.8 and think that it is solely based on the autograph alone not realizing a book is a variant that is hot for that moment and don't see the prices after the book cools and comes back to Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcjames Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Starlin clearly (and admittedly) doesn't understand the role of CGC with regards to the artist charging fans directly for signing. He mistakenly believes that CGC has a responsibility to A) help him collect his fees that HE charges fans at his table whenever CGC is witnessing (IOW he basically thinks CGC works for HIM during that time instead of working for the customer) and B) help him find a fan who forgot to pay him at his table simply because CGC witness was there too. Sounds like Starlin misunderstands almost everything about CGC SS witnessing AND that CGC didn't do a good job helping him understand, even if they did nothing wrong. He's an artist that feeds plenty of customers to CGC so they probably could have handled it better, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-DONIS Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I firmly believe that CGC and Mr. Starlin will work things out. Everyone just be patient...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poka Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) Doesn't really matter what we all think whether CGC's fault or issue or not - what matters is what Starlin thinks! also - it all artists knew how the SS works when the price setting they could do would it to do personalized things for free and charge for all other signatures (something along the line - "so Bud who should I address my signature to -Or do you want me to address it to someone? No - well then it will be $20 please"). Edited May 15, 2017 by Poka Add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinfinite Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I was there at the convention. First time going to one, first time dealing with CGC, and first time seeking out signatures. The two ladies at the booth were awesome, looked like they were slammed and they did their best to get the line moving. However, they only had one witness there. You were lucky to even talk to him about witnessing a signature, let alone having him wait in line with you. Is a three person booth usually how CGC sets up shop at a convention? I don't blame the people there, they seemed severely understaffed, even for a small convention like this one. When working high stress like that, there's bound to be something missed and now we have an upset artist on top of the people who couldn't the witness and were basically told they wouldn't qualify for the signature series. For me, I basically had 4 hours to get my signatures, submit to cgc, and get to work. At first I was worried the artists would hate me for bringing a CGC witness by, but seeing how things were, I was worried I wouldn't get anything witnessed. So I just submitted what I was originally wanting to submit, and if I couldn't get any signatures witnessed.. hey at least I got them signed. =) Luckily I got the witness to come by for one artist. But getting Starlin's was gonna be tough, he took a break, and I lost the witness for the time being. When Starlin came back (nice guy btw!), I couldn't find the witness and with time running out I just decided to get my books signed by Starlin. Even more lucky that the guy behind me had a CGC witness (who wasn't working the booth) and he verified the signing for me. With the amount we pay, I wish the promoters, CGC, and the artists could work something out so everybody benefits. Saw too many people come up to the CGC booth after getting their books signed asking if they would still qualify for SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I would be furious if CGC turned my information over to a third party, regardless of who was asking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGenius Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 More money has been made off of Iron Man #55 than will ever be made off of Starlin's signature. There is a secondary market for comics and it's been in place for some time. If creators want a piece of the pie, they need to find a way to monetize their appearances at conventions by selling merchandise. I don't think charging fans for signatures (whether witnessed or not) is the right way to go about it though. All of these signature series books are ultimately ending up in the hands of fans. If you alienate your fan base by charging for signatures then you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 24 minutes ago, Ryan. said: I would be furious if CGC turned my information over to a third party, regardless of who was asking for it. I agree. The thread would be greater in size and the more hate towards CGC if this had happened greggy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FineCollector Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I think everyone is misunderstanding Starlin's frustration with CGC. Without a witness, he signs the books, gives them back, and it's done. Simple. Because CGC mandates that the witness be present, he has to hold onto the guy's stuff or risk looking like a jerk when the witness disappears. He's out time and money when the process fails, and they won't help him make it right? I'd tell them to blow it out their hole too. prez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 8 hours ago, wombat said: That's not how I interpreted what happened. Trying to convince Starlin he was wrong for refusing to sign more books without any offer of help in solving his problem doesn't seem like damage control to me. But of course we are only reading one side of the story. "Later this same lady came by my table to try to convince me I was being unreasonable. I wasn’t convinced by her case and said I would no longer cooperate or deal with CGC. At no time did she offer to help find this fan." The truth of the matter is the individual who is having his books signed failed to pay for the signature, not CGC. CGC is just there to witness the signing. The disconnect came between Starlin (who should have gotten the money before signing) and the person who owned the books. Starlin is really to blame for his own mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said: I agree. The thread would be greater in size and the more hate towards CGC if this had happened Exactly. Is anyone even reading what happened or are they just jumping in to state their case on the first post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
