GAME OF THRONES Rules Thread 7 7

[Kon_Jelly]

56 minutes ago, jaybuck43 said:

It's not so much "Hollywood-izing" it, but rather story telling.  You've built up a character as beyond evil.  She's the reason our beloved Ned Stark is dead.  You've set up Arya for wanting revenge because of Cersei.  The cruel Joffrey is because of her, she brought the Faith Militant back etc.  All of this is setting up the idea that SOMEONE is going to "get the rub" by killing her.  Otherwise you might as well either 1) have her escape or 2) "win" the whole thing.  Killing her off in the most meaningless of ways, almost redeeming her (at least she had her love with her at the last moment) is just bleh storytelling.  You still want to drop a castle on her and kill her, FINE, but do it in a better way.  Here's a free suggestion.  

 

Cersei and Jamie are running to the tunnels.  They reach the entrance and see the row boat sitting there.  Both breath a sigh of relief thinking they are going to escape.  The camera pauses and suddenly Euron emerges.  Jamie screams at him "I killed you, how?"  Jamie pushes Cersei behind himself and lunges forward to strike Euron down, only to miss.  Euron strikes a near fatal blow to Jamie, who is on his knees choking on his own blood, fear in his eyes as he sees Euron continuing unbroken towards Cersei..  Euron walks to Cersei, who has relaxed, thinking she has control over him.  She starts talking to him about how they will rule the iron isles and one day reclaim their throne.  She reaches out to kiss him, to seduce him for her safety but feels something is wrong.  Euron is Cold, unresponsive to her advances as he had been in the past.  He reaches up and pulls off his face, to reveal instead  it is Arya. Meanwhile, Dany's attack continues and the castle is falling down around them. Arya gives a short but poignant speech explaining that, by all rights she should kill her for what she (Cersei) did to her father, but instead has realized she just isn't worth it.  That instead, she wants to thank Cersei for everything she has given her, how because of her she has become what she always wanted.  And as a Thank You, she will give Cersei what she has always dreamed of, always wanted, always schemed to get, the Red Keep and the Iron Throne.  As she says all this, she steps back as the castle ceiling collapses, crushing Cersei, who dies scared, alone, and destroyed by her own desires.  Jamie, seeing all of this, lets out a soft moan of great sadness, choking to death on his own blood and the lasting realization that he has lost what is most dear to him (His sister and his child).  Arya takes the row boat and sets off to Braavos.

  

Think about how something like that changes 3 stories.  1) Arya goes back to being a badbutt, deserving of having killed the Night's King, not gosh darn Arya Underfoot.  2) Cersei dies in a much more satisfying and cathartic way (even though it's still the same set piece of dropping a castle on her).  3) Jamie dies broken and saddened, having been defeated by a girl.  All of this is much more in keeping with the character developments that have transpired over the last 8 seasons, not Deus Ex Screenwriter.  

Honestly, that does not sound any better than what we got.

The problem was not how Cersei and Jaime died, the problem was how they got there in the first place. Jaime and Cersei dying together in the rubble is a very fitting end for the two of them, and my guess is that they will end up the same way in the books, but we just don't buy how they got there. Jaime's sudden turn seemed to lack motivation. Sure, one can argue that you always go back to your "true love" or whatever, but we didn't actually see that happen in the show. We saw a character throw away his 6 season redemption arc for what appeared to be no reason. 

An emotional conversation with Brienne was literally all it would take to turn Jaime's story around. Have him tell Brienne that he loves her, but he realizes that even she can never live up to Cersei in his eyes. Have him be heartbroken as he realizes how foolish he is that he has to return. Have him desperate to try and break into the castle to rescue his only love, and have him resigned to his death when he realizes that it is inevitable. You don't need to change any of the story to get to a place where his death is emotionally satisfying, we just have to buy into his journey.

Also Arya was never going to kill Cersei. She's been set up to be who we hope takes out the Mad Queen, but I have a feeling that is not going to be what actually happens. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Kon_Jelly
Misspelling pet peeve

[drotto]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Episode 6 first official photo (I think with appropriate CGI applied - don't quote me).

Where did Daenerys get all these forces from? In episode 3 we see both the Unsullied and Dathrakie get wiped out.  Here forces were decimated, and this was reinforced at the funeral scene in episode 4 when not many people were left.  To drive that home they talk about how depleted and tired the army is and maybe they should delay the attack on King's landing. And if that were not enough, they get ambushed on the way to Dragonstone, and lose a lot more forces.  Yet at the beginning of episode 5 and in the episode 6 photo, her full force is magically back. So she had tens of thousands more men kept in reserve that were never seen (and apparently were not initially brought to Westeros), and were held back from the Knight king battle?

 

Where has any sense of logic in this show gone?

[Kon_Jelly]

In the planning scene in episode 4 they said that all of their forces were cut in half. I would like to know where the other half of their army was hiding during the Battle of Winterfell, but whatever. So they think the logic is fixed by a conversation retconning the battle in the previous episode. 

[Bosco685]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:50 PM, Bosco685 said:

This article was written before Episode 4, but right after Episode 3.

Daenerys vs. Cersei: who has the resources to win the final game of thrones?

Quote

Thankfully, some industrious Redditors have paid a lot of attention in the past seasons, and tracked what we know about Daenerys and Cersei’s army sizes. Prior to the Battle of Winterfell, Daenerys had approximately:

• 10,000 Northerners
• 10,000 Knights of the Vale
• Fewer than 8,000 Unsullied
• Fewer than 100,000 Dothraki (a number Jorah quotes in season 6)

We saw what was apparently all of the Dothraki extinguished by wights, and we know that the Unsullied and Jon’s forces also suffered heavy casualties. 

So without breaking out each group, if half Dany has around 64,000 troops. Though we had the Knights of the Vale are back home, and not engaged right now. And this does not count down from what was lost during that Episode 4 naval battle.

And one pissed-off dragon.

Quote

On Cersei’s side, she’s got

• 20,000 strong from the Golden Company (at a heavy cost to the Crown)
• Small Lannister army that’s probably less than 10,000 soldiers
• Around 30,000 Ironborn from Euron.

She also likely has more ships than Daenerys, given that Euron built 900 ships, as revealed early on in season 7. Before the Battle of Winterfell, Cersei’s army would have been overwhelmed by the massive number of Dothraki soldiers, but now she has the numbers advantage. Besides numbers, Cersei could also have more wildfire, not counting the stores she used to blow up the Sept of Baelor in season 6. And then there are Qyburn’s experiments in necromancy, which brought back the Mountain from the dead.

So from this, Cersei has an estimated 60,000 troops.

 

[october]

 

6 minutes ago, Kon_Jelly said:

In the planning scene in episode 4 they said that all of their forces were cut in half. I would like to know where the other half of their army was hiding during the Battle of Winterfell, but whatever. So they think the logic is fixed by a conversation retconning the battle in the previous episode. 

The army numbers make absolutely no sense. The Night King destroyed their entire army, both inside and outside of Winterfell. There was a f^%@#&g dragon sitting in the courtyard who couldn't find anyone left to kill. There were zombies in the crypts. There was an army of the dead standing in the Godswood. There was NO ONE LEFT but a handful of main characters wearing plot armor. 

[Bosco685]

This show is definitely bringing out the emotions in people. And not all good.

Quote

One Twitter user lashed out at The Late Late Show host James Corden after he made a joke about the final season, wishing that his child would get cancer over a spoiler the Twitter user already knew, admitting he watched the show. The user has since been suspended, but Corden's response garnered tons of fan support.

 

 

 

[october]

They also ruined Tyrion. He went from being the best thing about the show to the worst thing about the show. Someone who saw all of the angles to seeing none of the angles. From understanding human nature through bitter experience to failing to correctly interpret every social, strategic or political cue he was presented with. A tactical genius to a blundering fool for no apparent reason. 

This is what happens when smart characters are given to people who....apparently aren't?

[drotto]

1 minute ago, october said:

They also ruined Tyrion. He went from being the best thing about the show to the worst thing about the show. Someone who saw all of the angles to seeing none of the angles. From understanding human nature through bitter experience to failing to correctly interpret every social, strategic or political cue he was presented with. A tactical genius to a blundering fool for no apparent reason. 

This is what happens when smart characters are given to people who....apparently aren't?

The trial of Tyrion is one of the greatest scenes for TV ever filmed.

[Doc McCoy]

[Catwomancomics]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

 

Now you know how those sports fans felt when the announcer started off the game by telling everyone who just died on Game of Thrones before the Pacific Time HBO had started. 

Thank you Jesus for HBO East. Nothing like seeing it 3hrs early.

[Bosco685]

Quote

Despite King’s Landing’s ringing of the bells to surrender, Dany rode Drogon through the city and destroyed everything in their path, attempting to take the Iron Throne with fire and blood just like she always promised. This divisive move caused some hilarious responses from the cast, including Emilia Clarke herself. However, Nathalie Emmanuel, who played Missandei on the series, had her own funny take on the moment.

 

 

This is a reference to the fact that the previous episode saw Missandei executed by Cersei Lannister, with her final words being “Dracarys.” While she was definitely telling Dany to burn them, she probably didn’t mean all of the innocent people living in the city.

[comix4fun]

4 hours ago, drotto said:

Where did Daenerys get all these forces from? In episode 3 we see both the Unsullied and Dathrakie get wiped out.  Here forces were decimated, and this was reinforced at the funeral scene in episode 4 when not many people were left.  To drive that home they talk about how depleted and tired the army is and maybe they should delay the attack on King's landing. And if that were not enough, they get ambushed on the way to Dragonstone, and lose a lot more forces.  Yet at the beginning of episode 5 and in the episode 6 photo, her full force is magically back. So she had tens of thousands more men kept in reserve that were never seen (and apparently were not initially brought to Westeros), and were held back from the Knight king battle?

 

Where has any sense of logic in this show gone?

That's not 8,000 unsullied in that picture, which she started with. 

It's not even the 4,000 she had left after the battle of Winterfell. 

It's not even the 2,000 (assuming she lost another 1/2 between being lost at sea and in the taking of King's Landing) she had after the episode 5 battles. 

Taking what's in that picture...32 rows of about 50 soldiers a row (counting shields) plus the ones on the steps is less than 1,800. 

She's lost nearly 80% of the unsullied in 2 battles and an ambush at sea (which didn't have her entire force present).

That's the least of the problems I have with the show.  

 

 

[comix4fun]

Like this....this is one of the problems I have. 

Folks are berating fans of the show for being butthurt that their theories aren't playing out etc. 

But it seems the folks ACTUALLY WORKING ON THE SHOW have no idea what's going on, and it's led to misleading fans or unreasonably raising expectations.

Case in point: 

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/jon-snows-direwolf-ghost-will-be-a-major-part-of-game-of-thrones-season-8-12111414

Jon Snow's Direwolf Ghost Will Be A Major Part Of 'Game Of Thrones' Season 8

Honestly. He's on screen for less than 30 seconds total, does very little that anyone can see, doesn't interact with Jon Snow, and is shuffled off to beyond the wall without so much as a scratch on the belly by Jon....

So when the show runners or their apologists are berating fans for their expectations, they should realize where those expectations came from in the first place. 

[marvelcollector]

7 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Suggested text for Sunday:  "OMG Jon just ordered Drogon to eat Daenerys, and he did it!!!  Then he rode him to Arya and proposed to her."

This made me think...isn't Jon actually a cousin to Arya? (And Sansa and Bran for that matter).

[comix4fun]

5 minutes ago, marvelcollector said:

This made me think...isn't Jon actually a cousin to Arya? (And Sansa and Bran for that matter).

Marrying your cousin is actually a greater degree of separation than we have seen from this group of degenerates. 

[marvelcollector]

1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

That's not 8,000 unsullied in that picture, which she started with. 

It's not even the 4,000 she had left after the battle of Winterfell. 

It's not even the 2,000 (assuming she lost another 1/2 between being lost at sea and in the taking of King's Landing) she had after the episode 5 battles. 

Taking what's in that picture...32 rows of about 50 soldiers a row (counting shields) plus the ones on the steps is less than 1,800. 

She's lost nearly 80% of the unsullied in 2 battles and an ambush at sea (which didn't have her entire force present).

That's the least of the problems I have with the show.  

 

 

The 32 rows looks about right, but I think there are more than 50 in each row. It looks like those columns go out for a good ways, over a football field's length.

There could be about 5,000 in that shot.

[comix4fun]

2 minutes ago, marvelcollector said:

The 32 rows looks about right, but I think there are more than 50 in each row. It looks like those columns go out for a good ways, over a football field's length.

There could be about 5,000 in that shot.

There are only 32 rows visible so made no assumption about off camera. I just went by what I saw and what I could count in the row closest to the camera, and counting the ones on the stairs separately, since they are only one row

Edited May 16, 2019 by comix4fun

[marvelcollector]

4 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

There are only 32 rows visible so made no assumption about off camera. I just went by what I saw and what I could count in the row closest to the camera, and counting the ones on the stairs separately, since they are only one row

I meant out away from the camera, in depth. There looks to be about 20 on the stairs alone, and the end of the row(s) seem a long way out there to me. Could be close to 150 in each row. It depends how you interpret the depth.

[RedRaven]

[skypinkblu]

After all these years of Brienne being the true liberated woman, she falls apart like a sack of mush. They had to get together, but to ruin the end like that made no sense.

Also Bran was a major character? If he's not worging or doing something at the end, it's been kind of a waste.

I still think Dany could be pregnant, maybe she was hormonally challenged that's why she burnt all those people. (I can say this, the rest of you might have thought about it;)