The most significant Silver Age key between 1965 - 1969 Poll Added - Located at the top of first page 2 2

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 7/1/2017 at 6:05 PM, bronze johnny said:

It's one of the reasons why I kept this from '65 to '69. This would have been another AF 15 v. SC 4 v. FF 1 thread if I'd have included the early 60s. 

This looks like it might turn into a FF #48 vs. FF #52 thread?

Edited July 3, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Jaylam]

From FF 44-67 all this was put forth:

Inhumans / Great Refuge

Galactus

Silver Surfer

Negative Zone / Blastarr

Black Panther /  Wakanda /  Vibrainium / Klaw

Wyatt Wingfoot

Evil Eye

Kree / Sentry / Ronan

Him

and let's not forget FF Annuals #4, 5 & #6

re-intro original Human Torch (who is later appropriated by Ultron 5 and re-created as the Vision- has this origin of the Vision held up in the comics or has it been changed?)

Psyco Man / Microverse

1st solo Silver Surfer story

birth Franklin Richards

Annihilus

Edited July 3, 2017 by Jaylam
Add info

[trmoore54]

Gotsta put ASM 39 on the list...

 

[Jaylam]

Yes, ASM #39-40 are clearly a defining and pivotal sequence in the Spider-Man mythos. 

[bronze johnny]

Updated list:

Tec 359

SC 55 & 60

BB 85

Strange Adventures 180 & 205

Silver Surfer 1 & 3

Cap America 100 & 117

Iron Man 1

Doctor Strange 169

Submariner 1

Hulk 102

Vampirella 1

House of Mystery 174

House of Secrets 81

GL 40

Strange Tales 135

Lois Lane 70

Batman 181

Avengers 57

Daredevil 7

ASM 33, 39, 40, & 50

TTA 70

Zap Comix 1

FF 45, 48, 51, 52, 67

Edited July 4, 2017 by bronze johnny

[Comicdey]

Surfer 3 1st Mephisto ?

Edited July 3, 2017 by Comicdey

[bronze johnny]

Updated:

Tec 359

SC 55 & 60

BB 85

Strange Adventures 180 & 205

Silver Surfer 1 & 3

Cap America 100 & 117

Iron Man 1

Doctor Strange 169

Submariner 1

Hulk 102

Vampirella 1

House of Mystery 174

House of Secrets 81

GL 40

Strange Tales 135

Lois Lane 70

Batman 181

Avengers 57

Daredevil 7

ASM 33, 39, 40, & 50

TTA 70

Zap Comix 1

FF 45, 48, 51, 52, 67

[AGGIEZ]

I'm going with FF #52...ask me 5-years ago...I would have said FF#48. More people in this country will know who Black Panther is in 12 months than that silver guy who fought that storm cloud in that crappy Fantastic Four movie a while back.

[Readcomix]

8 hours ago, AGGIEZ said:

I'm going with FF #52...ask me 5-years ago...I would have said FF#48. More people in this country will know who Black Panther is in 12 months than that silver guy who fought that storm cloud in that crappy Fantastic Four movie a while back.

From an ascendant hero vs descendant hero perspective, that makes sense, but from an overall importance to the genre perspective, I still think it's not even close. It's not just the Surfer, or Galactus, but the whole story arc. It's the birth of the cosmic superhero epic, such a mainstay of the silver and bronze and copper ages. Today, stories are as commonly set out in the void as on earth, and the Marvel movies are headed there too.

Sure the Legion was a few years earlier, and the Skrulls came along in FF2, but the flower blooms here. I have no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is the arc everyone from George Lucas to Jim Starlin fondly recalls from their childhood.  

That said, FF52 took some balls to create. I think it's actually underrecognized as a key; it is more than just the first black Marvel hero, in the way that GL 87 or Josie 45 break the color barrier for DC and Archie, respectively.

Stan and Jack didn't just finally make one of their superheroes black; they did it with no precedent except one short-lived Dell cowboy hero. It takes a lot in the mid-60's to create an African King superhero, name him The Black Panther (given that controversial group), and plop him in their flagship title. It was a moment, and it gave us quite a character, but the birth of the cosmic superhero epic was bigger for comic book storytelling.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Readcomix

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 7/3/2017 at 0:30 AM, Jaylam said:

From FF 44-67 all this was put forth:

Inhumans / Great Refuge

Galactus

Silver Surfer

Negative Zone / Blastarr

Black Panther /  Wakanda /  Vibrainium / Klaw

Wyatt Wingfoot

Evil Eye

Kree / Sentry / Ronan

Him

and let's not forget FF Annuals #4, 5 & #6

re-intro original Human Torch (who is later appropriated by Ultron 5 and re-created as the Vision- has this origin of the Vision held up in the comics or has it been changed?)

Psyco Man / Microverse

1st solo Silver Surfer story

birth Franklin Richards

Annihilus

Amazing that all that iconic stuff was created in less than a two year period!

[N e r V]

Marvel Super-Heroes #18 (1st appearance of Guardians of the Galaxy): 2 movies

Josie #45 (1st appearance of Josie and the Pussycats): 2 original cartoon series, 1 movie, appearing in TV show Riverdale currently

[bronze johnny]

On 7/3/2017 at 0:55 PM, bronze johnny said:

Updated list:

Tec 359

SC 55 & 60

BB 85

Strange Adventures 180 & 205

Silver Surfer 1 & 3

Cap America 100 & 117

Iron Man 1

Doctor Strange 169

Submariner 1

Hulk 102

Vampirella 1

House of Mystery 174

House of Secrets 81

GL 40

Strange Tales 135

Lois Lane 70

Batman 181

Avengers 57

Daredevil 7

ASM 33, 39, 40, & 50

TTA 70

Zap Comix 1

FF 45, 48, 51, 52, 67

Josie 45

Marvel Superheroes 18

[zhamlau]

1. FF 48

2. FF 52

3. Zap 1

Gold, Silver, and Bronze.

[AGGIEZ]

12 hours ago, Readcomix said:

From an ascendant hero vs descendant hero perspective, that makes sense, but from an overall importance to the genre perspective, I still think it's not even close. It's not just the Surfer, or Galactus, but the whole story arc. It's the birth of the cosmic superhero epic, such a mainstay of the silver and bronze and copper ages. Today, stories are as commonly set out in the void as on earth, and the Marvel movies are headed there too.

Sure the Legion was a few years earlier, and the Skrulls came along in FF2, but the flower blooms here. I have no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is the arc everyone from George Lucas to Jim Starlin fondly recalls from their childhood.  

That said, FF52 took some balls to create. I think it's actually underrecognized as a key; it is more than just the first black Marvel hero, in the way that GL 87 or Josie 45 break the color barrier for DC and Archie, respectively.

Stan and Jack didn't just finally make one of their superheroes black; they did it with no precedent except one short-lived Dell cowboy hero. It takes a lot in the mid-60's to create an African King superhero, name him The Black Panther (given that controversial group), and plop him in their flagship title. It was a moment, and it gave us quite a character, but the birth of the cosmic superhero epic was bigger for comic book storytelling.

 

I like this post. Good stuff. I guess, like anything else, "significant" is subjective. From the perspective of the cosmic universe, yes, FF#48 is certainly a more significant key and has opened up a much larger universe than what the Black Panther will open up with Wakanda....on the pages and on the silver screen. If you're looking at "significant" from a character recognition perspective, and from a market value perspective, FF#52 will or has already outpaced FF#48. If Marvel ever gets the rights back that will surely change but for now, from that angle, FF#52 wins in my book.

[Readcomix]

7 hours ago, AGGIEZ said:

 

I like this post. Good stuff. I guess, like anything else, "significant" is subjective. From the perspective of the cosmic universe, yes, FF#48 is certainly a more significant key and has opened up a much larger universe than what the Black Panther will open up with Wakanda....on the pages and on the silver screen. If you're looking at "significant" from a character recognition perspective, and from a market value perspective, FF#52 will or has already outpaced FF#48. If Marvel ever gets the rights back that will surely change but for now, from that angle, FF#52 wins in my book.

I'd agree with you. I'd say the answer can vary depending Upon how the OP means the question, but looking at the comic world today and out to line of sight, it probably does come down to these two. (Though if Tec 359 eclipses both in the long run from the major character perspective, I won't be surprised. I think the females are DC's big bet future. Just a hunch.)

[Martin Sinescu]

For me, FF 48 would be the #1 key from this time period without question, but 'Tec 359 almost definitely has second place cemented. I mean, can we just step back for a minute and get some perspective.... it's freaking Batgirl. I can't even believe Black Panther is anywhere close to Batgirl in significance. Is this just because of his recent movie appearances? Is it because FF 52 is more expensive? I would've thought BP was a B- or even C-list hero for Marvel until maybe the last 10 or so years. I seriously don't even remember Black Panther from when I grew up reading comics. Admittedly, I didn't read much Avengers or FF if that's where he was sequestered, but I certainly read plenty of Marvel through the 80's and 90's and I swear he wasn't even a blip on the radar. Has this guy really put together a more impressive body of work than Batgirl over the last 50 years? 

[Readcomix]

10 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

For me, FF 48 would be the #1 key from this time period without question, but 'Tec 359 almost definitely has second place cemented. I mean, can we just step back for a minute and get some perspective.... it's freaking Batgirl. I can't even believe Black Panther is anywhere close to Batgirl in significance. Is this just because of his recent movie appearances? Is it because FF 52 is more expensive? I would've thought BP was a B- or even C-list hero for Marvel until maybe the last 10 or so years. I seriously don't even remember Black Panther from when I grew up reading comics. Admittedly, I didn't read much Avengers or FF if that's where he was sequestered, but I certainly read plenty of Marvel through the 80's and 90's and I swear he wasn't even a blip on the radar. Has this guy really put together a more impressive body of work than Batgirl over the last 50 years? 

Funny ... When you say Batgirl, I think "another B lister too" but then you mention body of work and I realize more importantly Tec 359 is the first Barbara Gordon, which means Oracle too...Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey etc...Most of Panther's heat (I think....Does he even carry a title today?) is movie future anticipated popularity related.

So Tec 359 is more like a TTA 27; we commonly call it first Ant-Man; some quibble it's 35 when the same character becomes Ant-Man, but the real important point is it's the first Hank Pym. Much more major Marvel player when viewed that way. Same can be said for Barbara Gordon, really.

To be clear for my part, the majority of the reason I rank FF52 near the top (I still say FF48) is its comics' Jackie Robinson moment, for the way and time in which Marvel did it.

Yes Dell had Lobo first, but the boxing champ Jack Johnson also preceded Jackie Robinson. 

[Unca Ben]

On 7/6/2017 at 7:34 PM, Readcomix said:

Stan and Jack didn't just finally make one of their superheroes black; they did it with no precedent except one short-lived Dell cowboy hero. It takes a lot in the mid-60's to create an African King superhero, name him The Black Panther (given that controversial group), and plop him in their flagship title. It was a moment, and it gave us quite a character, but the birth of the cosmic superhero epic was bigger for comic book storytelling.

I'm fairly certain Jack & Stan were not aware of the Black Panther Party when they created a character named the Black Panther since the organization was formed in late '66, while FF 52 hit the stands in April of that same year - meaning Jack and Stan created the character months before that - January of '66, or so.

I recall a LOC in a subsequent issue of the FF mentioning the fact that their superhero had the same name as a controversial organisation, and if I recall Stan said they weren't aware of the Black Panthers when they created the character (or words to that effect).  Which makes sense, given the timeline.
A while after that, T'Challa changed his name to the Panther, mentioning confusion with the political group.  I believe this happened in an Avengers issue.  It stayed that way for awhile, and then was changed back.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Unca Ben

[Readcomix]

6 minutes ago, Unca Ben said:

I'm fairly certain Jack & Stan were not aware of the Black Panther Party when they created a character named the Black Panther since the organization was formed in late '66, while FF 52 hit the stands in April of that same year - meaning Jack and Stan created the character months before that - January of '66, or so.

I recall a LOC in a subsequent issue of the FF mentioning the fact that their superhero had the same name as a controversial organisation, and if I recall Stan said they weren't aware of the Black Panthers when they created the character (or words to that effect).  Which makes sense, given the timeline.
A while after that, T'Challa changed his name to the Panther, mentioning confusion with the political group.  I believe this happened in an Avengers issue.  It stayed that way for awhile, and then was changed back.

Wow! Never heard that. So it's largely coincidental. I see a lot less significance then, beyond of course a cool character.

[Unca Ben]

Just now, Readcomix said:

Wow! Never heard that. So it's largely coincidental. I see a lot less significance then, beyond of course a cool character.

Hey, it's possible Huey Newton had seen or read the FF Black Panther story and he used that as inspiration to name his group.  That would be significant.  Who Knows?  The comics could have been laying around his or Bobby Seale's houses at the time.