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214 posts in this topic

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22 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:
  31 minutes ago, boatfund said:

First  :takeit: in the thread trumps all else.

To me the seller should have not accepted another PM offer for less than the take it price, he had a deal with Grantley and did not get a take it without negotiating on the price.  Had a full price offer been made that would be another issue for me.

this muddies it a little bit to me.  If I were a buyer, I would think that means until its posted as 'sold' or someone else posts :takeit: in the thread that its still available, and I would be right to think that.  But since the 2nd sale was via pm too, the seller should have posted 'sold' instead of continuing to deal.  I think it would be tough to make a case for the probation list, but very easy to make a case that the seller rightfully will take a serious hit to his reputation here on the boards.  Hopefully it was worth it for him.

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I think that Pablo didn't understand that once he accepted Grantley's offer,  it was a done deal. Negotiations were now over.  You can't continue to negotiate.  Even if someone had later posted an unconditional "I'll take it" in the thread, there was nothing to take.  Pablo should have immediately posted that the book was sold by pm. Grantley made an offer and he accepted.  

I would encourage the second buyer, Omaha, to not get involved in this.

 

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Full disclosure:  I've sold Pablo one book and purchased two


Here are the events as I have been told:

  1. GG (who I didn't know was the first interested party) is an international buyer and was disappointed that Pablo didn't ship international (I can relate; international can be a pain).
  2. So apparently Pablo sent GG a PM saying he will do it for "price" + "x" for shipping.  I don't know the exact terms but in this case, doesn't matter.

  3. GG agrees.  To which Pablo states "post the take it in thread"

Looking at the original thread, it states "First  :takeit: in the thread trumps all else. Feel free to drop any questions my way via PM..."

It's not up to anyone to determine what that may or may not imply.  It simply states that first :takeit: wins; doesn't say whether its unconditional or not.  When GG was asked to post the :takeit:, in my opinion, it became conditional that he finalize the deal.  It cannot be a sellers responsibility to post a "SOLD" or "SOLD via PM."  A seller has done his job by posting an item for sale with his price and conditions for sale.  It's up to the buyer to alert everyone of his (the buyer's) intent.

 

So at this time, in my opinion, the book is still available since no has has posted a :takeit:.  Along comes Omaha, asks for a price, gets a satisfying answer and posts his "take it per PM"  At that point, the sale was finalized.

 

Again, I know Pablo and he's not looking to create any issues or pull a bait and switch (shame on the person who said that).  There was probably some miscommunication here but to say the it's the sellers responsibility to post a "Sold" message is ludicrous as he may not come back to the boards for hours (hell, days even at times).  A "take it" in the thread trumps all...does not mean unconditional and no one can reasonably read it as such.

Book should go to Omaha.  GG was asked to post take it and he did not.  Not Pablo's fault.  For all he knew, GG may flake out.  He doesn't know him or many around here.

Caulk it up to growing pains

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32 minutes ago, Columbia Comics said:

 

Again, I know Pablo and he's not looking to create any issues or pull a bait and switch (shame on the person who said that).  There was probably some miscommunication here but to say the it's the sellers responsibility to post a "Sold" message is ludicrous as he may not come back to the boards for hours (hell, days even at times).  A "take it" in the thread trumps all...does not mean unconditional and no one can reasonably read it as such.
 

He sent his PayPal address to GG.  You don't do that unless you believe a deal is made.  Instead, seller chose to keep negotiating with other people via PM to try and get more money despite agreeing to sell the book to GG.  If someone had posted an unconditional Take It in the thread, there'd be an argument for there being a mistake on Seller's part.  Here, Seller was wrong to negotiate with others after agreeing to a deal.

The Seller is in the wrong here.

Edited by Red84

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1 hour ago, Columbia Comics said:

There was probably some miscommunication here but to say the it's the sellers responsibility to post a "Sold" message is ludicrous as he may not come back to the boards for hours (hell, days even at times). 

But the seller closed the deal by agreeing to the offer and providing payment instructions. Since he was the only one who knew that the deal was closed, he would be the logical choice to mark it as sold.  He can't assume that Grantley will immediately read his response and take the initiative to end the sale.

 

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I don't think sending your PayPal email address necessarily seals the deal...although I completely see where individuals can feel that way.

 

1 hour ago, Cliff R. said:

But the seller closed the deal by agreeing to the offer and providing payment instructions. Since he was the only one who knew that the deal was closed, he would be the logical choice to mark it as sold.  He can't assume that Grantley will immediately read his response and take the initiative to end the sale.

 

I don't necessarily feel that you can place the responsibility on either.  Now obviously either can post it but one doesn't hold a responsibility over the other.  In my opinion, since the agreed upon price was lower than the asking price, one can argue that it's up to the buyer to inform the public of his completed transaction.  Otherwise, another buyer can come in and claim it unconditionally.

 

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2 hours ago, Columbia Comics said:

Full disclosure:  I've sold Pablo one book and purchased two


Here are the events as I have been told:

  1. GG (who I didn't know was the first interested party) is an international buyer and was disappointed that Pablo didn't ship international (I can relate; international can be a pain).
  2. So apparently Pablo sent GG a PM saying he will do it for "price" + "x" for shipping.  I don't know the exact terms but in this case, doesn't matter.

  3. GG agrees.  To which Pablo states "post the take it in thread"

Looking at the original thread, it states "First  :takeit: in the thread trumps all else. Feel free to drop any questions my way via PM..."

It's not up to anyone to determine what that may or may not imply.  It simply states that first :takeit: wins; doesn't say whether its unconditional or not.  When GG was asked to post the :takeit:, in my opinion, it became conditional that he finalize the deal.  It cannot be a sellers responsibility to post a "SOLD" or "SOLD via PM."  A seller has done his job by posting an item for sale with his price and conditions for sale.  It's up to the buyer to alert everyone of his (the buyer's) intent.

 

So at this time, in my opinion, the book is still available since no has has posted a :takeit:.  Along comes Omaha, asks for a price, gets a satisfying answer and posts his "take it per PM"  At that point, the sale was finalized.

 

Again, I know Pablo and he's not looking to create any issues or pull a bait and switch (shame on the person who said that).  There was probably some miscommunication here but to say the it's the sellers responsibility to post a "Sold" message is ludicrous as he may not come back to the boards for hours (hell, days even at times).  A "take it" in the thread trumps all...does not mean unconditional and no one can reasonably read it as such.

Book should go to Omaha.  GG was asked to post take it and he did not.  Not Pablo's fault.  For all he knew, GG may flake out.  He doesn't know him or many around here.

Caulk it up to growing pains

I'd like to see a PM that supports the 3rd item re: Pablo explicitly told @Grantley Goddard to put up a take it in thread after terms were agreed to.  I have asked and have been asked to do same to close the deal.  If this was explicitly requested I might be of a different opinion than my original post.  Book is tainted now none-the-less but really curious as to whether this exists in PM or you were just told that.

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14 minutes ago, Columbia Comics said:

I don't think sending your PayPal email address necessarily seals the deal...although I completely see where individuals can feel that way.

 

I don't necessarily feel that you can place the responsibility on either.  Now obviously either can post it but one doesn't hold a responsibility over the other.  In my opinion, since the agreed upon price was lower than the asking price, one can argue that it's up to the buyer to inform the public of his completed transaction.  Otherwise, another buyer can come in and claim it unconditionally.

 

I think that there are parallels here with Ebay's "best offer". You make an offer to the seller, and the seller has 3 options.

1)  He can reject it outright (or not respond, then the offer will expire in 48 hrs.)

2) He can make a counter offer.

3) He can accept the offer. In this case, your offer is binding, Ebay marks the item as sold. Time to pay.

Clearly, Grantley made a genuine offer. Pablo responded by saying it was a "done deal" and  provided his Paypal info.  The only thing missing here is that no one bothered to tell anyone else about it.

 

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Just now, Cliff R. said:

 The only thing missing here is that no one bothered to tell anyone else about it.

 

Nail meets hammer.

I think this is the issue people are having the most difficulty with...some say it's the sellers responsibility, others the buyer. 

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thank you for all the comments guys. I had agreed to sell the book To Paul (Grantley). on PM then I assumed he would go to the thread and said "take it by pm" but he didn't .I could have or should have closed the thread as well but I didn't. then 47 minutes passed and still nothing happened in that window the other person sent me PM with a better offer and ready to close the deal right there. he went ahead and post it take it on the thread In my view that's how it is supposed to work.  I am new here and I was confused about not closing the thread myself instead of assuming he would close the deal there.. If Paul still wants the book I will own it and sell it to him At the agreed price.

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1 hour ago, Dreamtoreal1 said:

thank you for all the comments guys. I had agreed to sell the book To Paul (Grantley). on PM then I assumed he would go to the thread and said "take it by pm" but he didn't .I could have or should have closed the thread as well but I didn't. then 47 minutes passed and still nothing happened in that window the other person sent me PM with a better offer and ready to close the deal right there. he went ahead and post it take it on the thread In my view that's how it is supposed to work.  I am new here and I was confused about not closing the thread myself instead of assuming he would close the deal there.. If Paul still wants the book I will own it and sell it to him At the agreed price.

Lesson learned, I guess.  No offense but I still find it troubling how @Columbia Comics put forth a false narrative of what looks to have actually happened.  He seemed to be stating facts you gave him then you come on and say "assumed".  If you gave CC bad info on how things went down he's probably owed an apology from you.

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1 hour ago, Dreamtoreal1 said:

thank you for all the comments guys. I had agreed to sell the book To Paul (Grantley). on PM then I assumed he would go to the thread and said "take it by pm" but he didn't .I could have or should have closed the thread as well but I didn't. then 47 minutes passed and still nothing happened in that window the other person sent me PM with a better offer and ready to close the deal right there. he went ahead and post it take it on the thread In my view that's how it is supposed to work.  I am new here and I was confused about not closing the thread myself instead of assuming he would close the deal there.. If Paul still wants the book I will own it and sell it to him At the agreed price.

47 minutes is not a lot of time. If you agreed to a deal and you were pming, you were near a computer or a phone, I don't see why you couldn't post that it was sold, I do that all the time so that the person I'm dealing with doesn't have a problem.

If you felt you needed a sign in the thread, the right thing to do, would have been to tell the other person who wanted the book, that  you made a deal already and were just waiting for something to be posted on the thread, and that IF the other person doesn't post a take it (although I don't know why the you couldn't have done it), then you would get back to him.

I just never can understand the mentality behind accepting an offer, but OH WAIT, I found a loophole, no one posted within X # of minutes, so it's OK if I get more money from someone else. 

You are new here and new people who want to sell things really need to show how trustworthy they are. This is not eBay. I don't want to be mean, but we really want it to be a safe place to trade comics, not somewhere where people are just trying to get a few extra $$$.

If you don't sell internationally, then don't. If you DO sell internationally but you want more for shipping, just say it in your original text , the way you did this was at the least confusing.. 

I also noticed that your original sales text was modified. I'm not sure what you said before. 

Please also  try to combine your sales threads. Selling one or two books and starting a new thread right away takes up a lot of selling space, it's just not so polite to other sellers.

 The only time I've seen you post in a place other than a sales thread, was when there was a discussion about stolen books that you seem to have bought, that belonged to someone on the boards and you were not answering their emails, nor did you answer the pm I sent to you, when I added him to the one you had sent to me. You just deleted yourself.

 
I'm not sure how that worked out, but it sure colored my viewpoint when I saw this.  

I apologize to everyone if this was too long. I think that Grantley should have gotten the book, too. However, he's being very classy about it. 

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I agree. It's troubling what lengths some people will actually go to , to justify a sale. It's interesting to see how some view the sales forums. What is more worrying to me is the lack of response from many who regularly frequent the sales boards. I do believe some folks around here would throw their Granny under a bus to get the book they desired.  :eek:

@MustEatBrains

 

And thank you Sharon @skypinkblu

Edited by Grantley Goddard

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I think these type of misunderstands and ensuing debate about how to resolve the dispute would be much clarified by a noob guide to buying on the forums that sets out the common law elements of a simple contract. That way we would have a set of clearly stated dispute resolution rules in the event that there is no agreement between the parties. 

They wouldn't be compulsory as parties could dictate the terms of sale in the sales thread. But in the event that noting in stipulated they would be very helpful.

 

my 2c.

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3 minutes ago, Grantley Goddard said:

I agree. It's troubling what lengths some people will actually go to , to justify a sale. It's interesting to see how some view the sales forums. What is more worrying to me is the lack of response from many who regularly frequent the sales boards. I do believe some folks around here would throw their Granny under a bus to get the book they desired.  :eek:

@MustEatBrains

 

And thank you Sharon @skypinkblu

I'm sorry to have to write something Grantley, I bit my tongue and erased a few times, but I meant what I said.

 

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4 minutes ago, The-Collector said:

I think these type of misunderstands and ensuing debate about how to resolve the dispute would be much clarified by a noob guide to buying on the forums that sets out the common law elements of a simple contract. That way we would have a set of clearly stated dispute resolution rules in the event that there is no agreement between the parties. 

They wouldn't be compulsory as parties could dictate the terms of sale in the sales thread. But in the event that noting in stipulated they would be very helpful.

 

my 2c.

Guidelines are all well and good but when someone says 'done deal' and gives you their payment details, then to me there is no ambiguity there. To me that's a contract right there. Where's Judge Judy when you need her?

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Just now, Grantley Goddard said:

Guidelines are all well and good but when someone says 'done deal' and gives you their payment details, then to me there is no ambiguity there. To me that's a contract right there. Where's Judge Judy when you need her?

I agree a contract was obviously formed.

 

But you can see that hasn't stopped debate about posting a take it in the thread, etc... I think a better understanding of contract formation would lessen some of that ensuing debate and at least provide a nice introduction for noobs.

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